Government advisers warn of ...

[candyman]

The story has been on the radio alot and I keep seeing it on the car forums but I can't seem to find the damn thing in an unbiased source.

Dave Strickland appointed former Road & Track editor-in-chief John Dinkel to the post of Director of Vehicle Efficiency and Performance.

In his new position, Dinkel will be responsible for advising the NHTSA on issues related to vehicle efficiency and performance and making recommendations on regulations "to reduce the current proliferation of excessively high-performance vehicles," according to a press release.

"While the NHTSA recognizes that President Obama's soon-to-be-adopted fuel economy regulations will require all vehicle manufacturers to place additional attention and resources on overall energy efficiency, we have also noted a distressing increase in vehicles and engines with what can only be considered to be environmentally unfriendly levels of horsepower," Strickland said in the release.

I don't know if anyone can confirm or disprove this...but I sadly do not see this as a big stretch. We had been hearing a ton of crap like this in our engineering classes about how we have to tame this down and rework this...which would basically take us back to the Model T which I really wouldn't mind that much but still...

[Msterbeau]

Hoax.

http://jalopnik.com/5526310/how-an-ex+road--track-editor-fooled-the-car-world

[candyman]

Hoax.

http://jalopnik.com/5526310/how-an-ex+road--track-editor-fooled-the-car-world

Yeah but I heard about it before it popped up on that site. And considering the restrictions they are putting on new production engines I have a hard time believing it is a complete hoax...maybe that exact thing did not happen but the restrictions are going in...on top of the ones that we already have.

Seriously it is dealing with an organization and can somehow not comprehend the data supporting high horsepower engines as being efficient. They conduct efficiency tests at WOT which would work if that isn't they only thing they test at. They can somehow make a 2007 Honda Civic get terrible gas mileage...they sent us reports on the "wastefulness" of forced induction and gave us "data" that contradicts everything done in the labs over the years.

This article may be a hoax but I don't like whats going on with the regulations in America today...

[Msterbeau]

That letter is a complete hoax. Everything else.. Who knows. I do find it curious and sad that current B and C segment cars (Compacts) for the most part don't get that great of gas mileage. 20 years ago, a CRX HF or Sprint XFi was rated in the 50's....

http://money.cnn.com/2007/12/17/autos/honda_civic_hf/index.htm

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/news/fuel-economy/4288444

[n0Mad]

Nobody needs a high capacity magazine for their gun, 10 is just fine, and full auto is just ridiculous.

Sorry, wrong thread.

Nobody needs a V8 engine for their car, 4 cylinders is just fine, and excessive horsepower and torque is just ridiculous.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

That letter is a complete hoax. Everything else.. Who knows. I do find it curious and sad that current B and C segment cars (Compacts) for the most part don't get that great of gas mileage. 20 years ago, a CRX HF or Sprint XFi was rated in the 50's....

http://money.cnn.com...ic_hf/index.htm

http://www.popularme...economy/4288444

They changed the ratings system. On top of that, people want to get places in a reasonable amount fo time. Like out of the way... 72HP doesn't cut it.

[candyman]

That letter is a complete hoax. Everything else.. Who knows. I do find it curious and sad that current B and C segment cars (Compacts) for the most part don't get that great of gas mileage. 20 years ago, a CRX HF or Sprint XFi was rated in the 50's....

http://money.cnn.com/2007/12/17/autos/honda_civic_hf/index.htm

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/news/fuel-economy/4288444

Its partly because of the rating systems. The other part is current regulations for weight...which is why you no longer get cars with proper horsepower to weight ratios. Engines are also running less efficiently despite all the "progress" we claim to have made...at least that applies to us here in the US. We run really shitty gasoline...VERY shitty gasoline in our vehicles! Our diesels are pretty much non-existent because Cali and their lap dogs are keeping diesel vehicles out of our country...bad idea because they would help us alot...good idea because our diesel fuel is also shitty and we waste money on worthless ethanol while we could be making a cheaper and much more productive bio-diesel.

Yeah my friends CRX and my Prelude both get more mpg's that the cars today even with the new rating system. We have the capability to produce vehicles with the same results only better...however if the government allows a vehicle to be released here in the US the regulations often lead to an engine with only half of what it needs to do its job...they they slap an inefficient intake manifold and exhaust manifold on there to choke it to death...don't even get me started on the cam overlap because it is a travesty!

But what do you expect when you live in a country that will impound your car and fine your thousands for putting performance parts into your vehicle? They can't understand the simple concept of engine breathing with the I/H/E combinations which means they will probably never understand the parallel between performance and efficiency/fuel economy. I have even showed people a bunch of "ricers" and muscle cars that were modded on the 5-gas analyzer and the graph showed emissions that were just as clean as most "SULEV" hamster wheels. Stoichiometry in relation to vehicle performance seems to have been lost along the way somewhere.

[Msterbeau]

They changed the ratings system. On top of that, people want to get places in a reasonable amount of time. Like out of the way... 72HP doesn't cut it.

In a 1600-1700lb car it's fine. Considering the speed limits, there's no reason they have to be rocket ships. These cars get low fifties mpg using the current ratings method. They were advertised higher back then.

Part of the problem is safety standards have increased significantly. Part of the problem is that marketing departments have convinced people that they must have every convenience known to man in the car and that cars should all be 5 star safety rated so they're far above what some people would consider adequate I think we're compromising too far in that direction. A current Toyota Yaris is pretty close to the same size as the HF and Sprint. It weighs about 600lbs more. A Mini Cooper weighs almost 900lbs more. Ridiculous.

On today's engine technology it would be pretty easy to make a reasonably safe little car that got great mileage AND great performance. Stop making cars that are built like tanks that are filled with crap.

[Msterbeau]

Nobody needs a high capacity magazine for their gun, 10 is just fine, and full auto is just ridiculous.

Sorry, wrong thread.

Nobody needs a V8 engine for their car, 4 cylinders is just fine, and excessive horsepower and torque is just ridiculous.

Very true. Get one of these and you can go from 0-60 in under 5seconds AND get close to 30mpg. All on 4 cylinders.

You can strap the kids or the mother-in-law to the engine cover...

[StormKnight (1)]

Very true. Get one of these and you can go from 0-60 in under 5seconds AND get close to 30mpg. All on 4 cylinders.

You can strap the kids or the mother-in-law to the engine cover...

Why? They would only ruin the areodynamics, and drop milage as a result.

"Sorry, Ellen. We can't put your mom on the Lotus. Our milage will drop 10 miles per hour."

[Soulrev]

Why? They would only ruin the areodynamics, and drop milage as a result.

"Sorry, Ellen. We can't put your mom on the Lotus. Our milage will drop 10 miles per hour."

Yeah well maybe grandma's cottage cheese legs will give the golfball effect and INCREASE the mileage?

[Msterbeau]

Yeah well maybe grandma's cottage cheese legs will give the golfball effect and INCREASE the mileage?

New topic!!!

I know where we can get the Lotus. Who's got a grandma we can borrow?

[Soulrev]

New topic!!!

I know where we can get the Lotus. Who's got a grandma we can borrow?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

0-60 3.9 seconds

Top speed: 125Mph

244 Miles per Charge

Charge Time: 3.5 Hours

Can it get more perfect?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Oh! You need to pack in the family...

0-60 5.6 seconds

Top Speed: 120Mph

Seats 7

300 Miles per Charge

45min Quick Charge

[StormKnight (1)]

Not bad, Gaf.

Reasonable range, electric. About the weekly commute to work on one charge.

Only minor sticking point? Vacation driving (i.e., 800-1000 miles a day.) The charge times make for a heck of a layover.

But otherwise...

Do they come in black?

Edited April 29, 2010 by StormKnight

[Msterbeau]

Perfect would be if you had these and a free source of electricity. Solar panels on the garage and a wind turbine in the backyard ought to do the trick. The only issue I have with either of them is the charge time. That's no good on a long trip. Even the 45 minutes. And that would presume you had access to that special charger.

Both beautiful cars though.

You do realize the Roadster is based on the Lotus Elise, yes?

0-60 3.9 seconds

Top speed: 125Mph

244 Miles per Charge

Charge Time: 3.5 Hours

Can it get more perfect?

Oh! You need to pack in the family...

0-60 5.6 seconds

Top Speed: 120Mph

Seats 7

300 Miles per Charge

45min Quick Charge

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I don't think we are ever going to have an Electric solution for cross country driving. Batteries just don;t work like that. Now, if some were to design a "quick change" Battery system we might just have a plan.

and ya, I know it's based off the Elise.

[creatureofthenyte]

I don't think we are ever going to have an Electric solution for cross country driving. Batteries just don;t work like that. Now, if some were to design a "quick change" Battery system we might just have a plan.

Yeah, kinda like the battery pack that my r/c monster truck runs on...

[Msterbeau]

I don't think we are ever going to have an Electric solution for cross country driving. Batteries just don;t work like that. Now, if some were to design a "quick change" Battery system we might just have a plan.

and ya, I know it's based off the Elise.

Yeah, kinda like the battery pack that my r/c monster truck runs on...

All that takes is the manufacturers agreeing on some sort of standards so a "gas" station doesn't have to stock a zillion different kinds. Oh... and engineering the connections and batteries to take a lot more abuse than they currently do. Being fixed in the car is one thing. Bouncing them around unprotected is another.

[creatureofthenyte]

All that takes is the manufacturers agreeing on some sort of standards so a "gas" station doesn't have to stock a zillion different kinds. Oh... and engineering the connections and batteries to take a lot more abuse than they currently do. Being fixed in the car is one thing. Bouncing them around unprotected is another.

Yes. the battery pack that powers the truck, sits in a tray, and has 2 plastic cross-bars holding it in place, which are secured by cotter pins.

[candyman]

The manufacturers have already agreed on standards for fuels. They were agreed upon quite a while ago actually...there are only three testing fuels used by manufacturers today however these fuels are not produced for the public over here and only 2 are available for use in Europe at special stations.

What is this about batteries and their connections? I seem to recall terminal corrosion as the main problem with them...I guess other things can be problems too if you don't buy Glass-mat batteries and don't make use of battery sleeves and tiedowns.

[Msterbeau]

The manufacturers have already agreed on standards for fuels. They were agreed upon quite a while ago actually...there are only three testing fuels used by manufacturers today however these fuels are not produced for the public over here and only 2 are available for use in Europe at special stations.

What is this about batteries and their connections? I seem to recall terminal corrosion as the main problem with them...I guess other things can be problems too if you don't buy Glass-mat batteries and don't make use of battery sleeves and tiedowns.

Fuels yes, battery configurations no.

The design of a large battery pack that can be detached/attached often, quickly and reliably under use by your typical motorist hasn't been designed as far as I know. They exist for one-off race cars and possibly in commercial applications that I'm not aware of? It's one thing to do that in some small appliance... It's quite another to do it on a car, where the batteries will likely weigh hundreds of pounds and the potential sources of corrosion are far more varied and severe.

[candyman]

Fuels yes, battery configurations no.

The design of a large battery pack that can be detached/attached often, quickly and reliably under use by your typical motorist hasn't been designed as far as I know. They exist for one-off race cars and possibly in commercial applications that I'm not aware of? It's one thing to do that in some small appliance... It's quite another to do it on a car, where the batteries will likely weigh hundreds of pounds and the potential sources of corrosion are far more varied and severe.

Most of the battery pack designs ended up under the rear seat of a vehicle. In truck applications this was not so bad seeing as the pack fit between the frame rails. However fit didn't matter at all because the battery was in a bad position. Its a trade off when it comes to large battery packs...if you want it to be small for a good fit you get little power but if you want more power then you get a pack that is a pain in the ass to fit.

Corrosion is no issue with the large packs as far as I am aware of. Everything is sealed in an aluminum case and once the factory seals is it is NEVER opened unless it fails and it is never used again. The connectors have more fail-safes than before and you would probably have to try to get them to corrode.

There are quite a few commercial applications for battery packs like this...however most of the are still in the experimentation stage. They want universal packs for different classes of vehicles like heavy equipment, passenger car, and so on and so forth...each class has one or two types of the battery pack which is interchangeable with all the packs in all the other vehicles of its class.

My advice for people is that if you don't want to wait for a decent electric car, you will most likely be in the grave when it happens, just go out and look at your options for having your own electric vehicle. If you already have a poorly running car it is the perfect candidate and it costs less for the conversion than you would think.

[Nightgaunt]

I don't think we are ever going to have an Electric solution for cross country driving. Batteries just don;t work like that. Now, if some were to design a "quick change" Battery system we might just have a plan.

How about "Wardenclyffe Towers" all over the country? The Wikipedia article says it wasn't completed due to "economic problems". The truth is that J.P. Morgan pulled the plug when Tesla said there would be no easy way to charge people for the electricity. What if we constructed the towers and vehicle owners paid a flat fee per year? Something (hopefully) less than the cost of a year's worth of gasoline...

Oh wait, we're not supposed to know about this kind of technology.