The oil disaster in the gulf.

[prick]

As long as we are still dependant on oil there will always be an enviromental risk. Does not mater where the drilling happens.

[Rev.Reverence]

I just wish people would stop blaming each other and FIX THE DAMN ISSUE!

THAT...is wisdom!

...I'ld personally help out, but, it's a bit far away...

[phee]

I would help too.... but I have too much oil in my hair.

[Rev.Reverence]

I would help too.... but I have too much oil in my hair.

O.o

[candyman]

Oh... but wait. That would take away from Dick Cheney's profits at Haliburton. The company that just happens to operate the drilling rig that blew up...

And if they're so awful, why do two other major offshore oil producing nations, Brazil and Norway, require them and use them?

In the whole scheme there the valves aren't really going to made a dent in any money going to anyone...we would see it at the gas pump if anything.

Brazil and Norway use different drilling processes than we do. The question of why we do not do the same things they do, which includes scrubbing crude of pollutants before it is processed, is the same as the questions of why we still use shitty fuels and they don't or why everything they have works and when we try to copy it the thing turns to complete shit.

[Msterbeau]

In the whole scheme there the valves aren't really going to made a dent in any money going to anyone...we would see it at the gas pump if anything.

Brazil and Norway use different drilling processes than we do. The question of why we do not do the same things they do, which includes scrubbing crude of pollutants before it is processed, is the same as the questions of why we still use shitty fuels and they don't or why everything they have works and when we try to copy it the thing turns to complete shit.

The valves are $500,000 per. They're reportedly spending $6 million per day on cleanup. That doesn't include all the environmental costs... We're going to be paying and paying no matter what.

[Rev.Reverence]

The valves are $500,000 per. They're reportedly spending $6 million per day on cleanup. That doesn't include all the environmental costs... We're going to be paying and paying no matter what.

Ew...

[IsleofRhodesEnt]

*shrugs* well, lets be honest...another mandatory shut-off switch may or may not have worked. I'm not saying they shouldn't have it, but from what I understand, there was a line of problems that caused this, not just the switched. Would an extra switch helped? probably. Would have it been a definate solution? never know. What if the had the extra switch and this still happened? what would we have said then? If anything, this will put some stuff into effect where Oil companies are going to go over their systems alot more, because it will cost them more to clean it up then to fix it.

hopefully

[candyman]

The valves are $500,000 per. They're reportedly spending $6 million per day on cleanup. That doesn't include all the environmental costs... We're going to be paying and paying no matter what.

I was mostly commenting on what you said about the money being spent on a "better" system taking money away from people that may or may not be making huge profits from this. I don't think anyone is under the impression that the cleanup will not hit everyone in the wallet...even Pvt. Pyle could understand that.

There is also no data that proves that the extra valves would have helped anything at all. In fact most engineers find redundant systems to be more of a problem than a solution creating hell during a breakdown instead of helping anything. If there is no supporting data there is no good reason why a redundant system should be chosen no matter what the monetary cost is.

So with this logic you are saying that despite the cost to myself or my customer I should install a second BOV on the turbo system that the tractor runs just because there is a slight chance that is could help to avoid a massive failure? We engineer shit to work and not to fail but the fact is that if the machine exists it WILL fail and no have no clue how it will fail, why it will fail, or where it will fail...that leads to the problem of cleanup like we see here since you don't know WHAT to clean up until it happens. Even a simple device like a "clicky" pen has multiple failure points on it...

[Msterbeau]

I was mostly commenting on what you said about the money being spent on a "better" system taking money away from people that may or may not be making huge profits from this. I don't think anyone is under the impression that the cleanup will not hit everyone in the wallet...even Pvt. Pyle could understand that.

There is also no data that proves that the extra valves would have helped anything at all. In fact most engineers find redundant systems to be more of a problem than a solution creating hell during a breakdown instead of helping anything. If there is no supporting data there is no good reason why a redundant system should be chosen no matter what the monetary cost is.

So with this logic you are saying that despite the cost to myself or my customer I should install a second BOV on the turbo system that the tractor runs just because there is a slight chance that is could help to avoid a massive failure? We engineer shit to work and not to fail but the fact is that if the machine exists it WILL fail and no have no clue how it will fail, why it will fail, or where it will fail...that leads to the problem of cleanup like we see here since you don't know WHAT to clean up until it happens. Even a simple device like a "clicky" pen has multiple failure points on it...

According to what I read, the "no supporting data" comments came at a time when Bush/Cheney were in office (2003-ish) and the report on this had been "revised" from a previous policy of recommending the acoustic valves. There is much evidence that the oil companies (With the Bush administrations tacit approval) were essentially wining and dining (Read: bribing) the Bureau of Land management and other agencies into doing this kinda stuff to their benefit.

I'm not going to argue one way or another about the benefits of backup safety devices in all instances... But pretty sure in this one, it makes a lot of sense.

[candyman]

According to what I read, the "no supporting data" comments came at a time when Bush/Cheney were in office (2003-ish) and the report on this had been "revised" from a previous policy of recommending the acoustic valves. There is much evidence that the oil companies (With the Bush administrations tacit approval) were essentially wining and dining (Read: bribing) the Bureau of Land management and other agencies into doing this kinda stuff to their benefit.

I'm not going to argue one way or another about the benefits of backup safety devices in all instances... But pretty sure in this one, it makes a lot of sense.

Well there already was a backup safety device in place. The acoustic switch you speak of is only different because it is activated remotely by a crew of people. And the primary and secondary switches on the well head are not the only two devices to stem oil flow in case of an emergency.

You really want no supporting data? Well try the fact that this acoustic valve has never been simulated under the conditions of real world use. Just like most other safety devices that are not mandated this device is only know to go "click" under lab conditions. Now, two systems that have been tested, because they are used in more than just underwater drilling, fail and people are going to claim that a system that has a horrible lack of testing behind it would save the day?

[Rev.Reverence]

..some peoples like to bicker over nothing, eh?

[Msterbeau]

http://www.infrastructurist.com/2010/05/10/the-current-state-of-the-gulf-oil-spill/

[Rev.Reverence]

http://www.infrastructurist.com/2010/05/10/the-current-state-of-the-gulf-oil-spill/

Looks like landfall ins imminent...

[angry_darkness]

I hurt my foot today,it is Bush's fault, or maybe Obama, well it is someones fault but not mine.

[aequorea]

I am looking into certification for animal rescue. I am planning to spend at least a week on the Gulf doing volunteer work this summer, maybe just manual labor if I can't get certified. Anyone else interested?

BTW, thanks to all who are posting links! This thread has become an excellent resource.

[Raev]

Anyone else interested?

Somewhat. Just not sure I could pull it off.

[cptdeath]

its really not that bad down here yet. but maybee there will be flamable huricanes this season. been thinking alot of moving away from the golf back to michigain.

[prick]

Will oil and nature ever happily coexist?

Edited July 24, 2011 by prick

[taysteewonderbunny]

Will oil and nature ever happily coexist?

Well, they did until the combustion engine. Unless you count the whales and oil lamps.