What exactly is wrong with being conservative?

[TitsMcGee]

I'm honestly curious on why a large majority of people on here think that leaning to the right or being conservative is such a horrible thing. I mean is it so wrong to have traditional values, believing in a limited government, and believe in God? Because I've gotten the vibe from many people here, that being conservative is wrong and being liberal is the only way to go.

So please explain to me why you think that way so I can understand your point of view.

[Slogo]

I only have a problem with people who are conservative that have a problem with me for being liberal.

[TitsMcGee]

I only have a problem with people who are conservative that have a problem with me for being liberal.

Have I ever had a major issue with you Slogo? I'm just trying to understand your position on things, and this isn't a very good explanation.

[Slogo]

Have I ever had a major issue with you Slogo? I'm just trying to understand your position on things, and this isn't a very good explanation.

I wasn't referring to you at all. I meant conservatives in general. I have no problem with someone who has a different opinion than me, mostly because if I did I wouldn't have any friends. I am talking about people who try to jam their opinions down my throat as if berating me and callin me a terrorist lover would get me to agree with them.

Here are some examples

"When contemplating college liberals, you really regret once again that John Walker is not getting the death penalty. We need to execute people like John Walker in order to physically intimidate liberals, by making them realize that they can be killed, too. Otherwise, they will turn out to be outright traitors." ~ Ann Coulter

I’ll tell you who should be tortured and killed at Guantanamo - every filthy Democrat in the U.S. Congress. ~ Sean Hannity

The dream end of this is that this keeps up to the convention and we have a replay of Chicago 1968 with burning cars, protests, fires, literal riots, and all of that. That's that's the objective here.

Rush Limbaugh ~ telling his listeners about his idea to turn the National Democratic Convention into "Operation Chaos" on The Rush Limbaugh Show (April 9, 2008)

These are the people a wish death upon. Why? Because the feeling is mutual.

I can't think of anyone on here who has ever wished death or violence upon liberals. And the feeling from this side is also mutual

[TitsMcGee]

Maybe I should clarify..I'm talking about everyday people, not celebrities.

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

I only have a problem with people who are conservative that have a problem with me for being liberal.

I have noticed the same thing on here. Not everyone with a conservative viewpoint is like that, but there are a couple posters that always seem to jump on any band wagon they can to bash liberals.

Of course, I see the same trend on a few "liberal minded" people as well.

It's sorta a shame that a few loudmouths here ruin the name for everyone else. I have had plenty of words with Tea Baggers (that's how they'll forever be known in my book because most of them are off their rocker in my opinion) for being an "obama lover".. When really, I aint crazy about the guy by any means at all. Hell if you really wanna know my real opinion on Obama, I didn't even bloody vote since either Obama or McCain would be a vast improvement from Bush, it was a win win situation in my eyes, i'd have been happy with either one in office.

But the hypocracy is blatant with Tea Baggers, go on flaming rants against obama, then when they get a bit of backlash, they flip out and assume the reverse race card.

Liberal, conservative, 90% of each group are poster children for the reason why just because you have a voice, doesn't mean you should use it.

[Rev.Reverence]

I am fed up with the left / right phenomena...argument for argument & mud sling for mud sling...seriously..I have been dealing with it nearly all my life...both sides, need to 'man up', & take a few steps inward...THE ANSWER, IS WITHIN. (ZEN saying)... nothing will ever 'come together', if we can't 'shoot the middle', & by, that, I mean 'split the difference'...because, until we do, our differences will be splitting us!

[TitsMcGee]

I have noticed the same thing on here. Not everyone with a conservative viewpoint is like that, but there are a couple posters that always seem to jump on any band wagon they can to bash liberals.

Of course, I see the same trend on a few "liberal minded" people as well.

It's sorta a shame that a few loudmouths here ruin the name for everyone else. I have had plenty of words with Tea Baggers (that's how they'll forever be known in my book because most of them are off their rocker in my opinion) for being an "obama lover".. When really, I aint crazy about the guy by any means at all. Hell if you really wanna know my real opinion on Obama, I didn't even bloody vote since either Obama or McCain would be a vast improvement from Bush, it was a win win situation in my eyes, i'd have been happy with either one in office.

But the hypocracy is blatant with Tea Baggers, go on flaming rants against obama, then when they get a bit of backlash, they flip out and assume the reverse race card.

Liberal, conservative, 90% of each group are poster children for the reason why just because you have a voice, doesn't mean you should use it.

But using terms like that doesn't help anything at all. I just don't understand why people feel the need to mock another group of people because they don't agree with what they have to say. Which is why I made this thread, so I can try to understand the other point of view.

[Slogo]

Maybe I should clarify..I'm talking about everyday people, not celebrities.

Once again, I don't have a problem with everyday people who are conservative. I may question them, but what's wrong with that. I am entitled to a rebuttal against conservatives and vice versa.

Here is a quote I like from our 25th president (McKinley)-

Our differences are politics. Our agreements are principles.

And I apply that to you especially Tits. Because I have no problem with you. I like you and think that you're a wonderful person and consider you a good personal friend.

[Slogo]

And I would ask the same question of the conservatives on this site. Is it so wrong to have progressive values? Is it wrong to have a difference of faith? Is it wrong to see that the government can do good (Theodore Roosevelt anyone?)?...

Y'know I'm going throw another quote in here from a president.

If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

John Fitzgerald Kennedy

[Rev.Reverence]

And I would ask the same question of the conservatives on this site. Is it so wrong to have progressive values? Is it wrong to have a difference of faith? Is it wrong to see that the government can do good (Theodore Roosevelt anyone?)?...

Y'know I'm going throw another quote in here from a president.

If by a "Liberal" they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people — their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties — someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a "Liberal," then I'm proud to say I'm a "Liberal."

John Fitzgerald Kennedy

YOU ALL SUCK!

[Slogo]

^no...you suck

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

But using terms like that doesn't help anything at all. I just don't understand why people feel the need to mock another group of people because they don't agree with what they have to say. Which is why I made this thread, so I can try to understand the other point of view.

I rarely mock an individual unless he/she gets insulting with me first.

As far as groups or organizations go like Tea Baggers, (wich is what they did in fact call themselves origionally until they realized what it meant lol!) I really don't like lobbyists or special interest groups, or any organization of people period. Just groups of people usually almost always lowers the value of the movement. A person by him/her self can be a smart rationally thinking person by default nature.. yet somehow when they group together, those qualities are lost entirely.

For example, I support the right to bear arms, I love my guns. I respect the NRA's efforts to keep that in effect, however I find it hard to respect most else of what the NRA's agenda is.

I avoid almost any and every form of organizations from politics to religion.

I do have my set beliefs and Ideas, some are liberal, some are conservative. Will I listen to a conflicting belief? I'd be more than happy to as long as there's an actual respectful explaining why they feel that way. But if they have this snotty attitude about it, I loose all respect for that person or anything they have to say as I get the gist they aren't really trying to "correct" me out of the pure consideration that i'm misguided, rather they are simply stroking their ego to gain the satisfaction that they are somehow superior. And if it's based on that principal, it doesn't really matter if it is a right or wrong situation, or simply a matter of opinion, all that matters is their superiority. So they could just as easily have the misguided view and mine isn't, but all that isn't gonna matter due to them needing to stroke their own ego. So with people like that, it's really irrelevant to even listen to what they say, they have no credibility based on the principal of wich they "debate" their views.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Probably the majority of my opinions would be considered "conservative". In some cases Ultra-Old-School conservative, not the wishy-washy neo-con type stuff in many cases.

Butttttt in my viewing of TV talk shows and Radio talks shows (and the handful of people that claim to be conservatives in my private personal life) they tend to YELL LOUDER if you don't agree with their point, as if volume = stronger argument. So I'll just scream my point at the top of my lungs until people agree with me seems to be the system of "debate" that I get. Which really doesn't impress me one bit, and generally just lowers my estimation of the speakers mental faculties. at least in my local circle of friends and on the conservative talk shows I listen too (Rush, Mike Savage) people yelling actually hurts their credibility in my mind.

This is where they can often lose many people, not in the actual message, but in the delivery.

I still listen to these guys fairly regularly as I do agree with some of their points, but I wouldn't invite them out for lunch.

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

Probably the majority of my opinions would be considered "conservative". In some cases Ultra-Old-School conservative, not the wishy-washy neo-con type stuff in many cases.

Butttttt in my viewing of TV talk shows and Radio talks shows (and the handful of people that claim to be conservatives in my private personal life) they tend to YELL LOUDER if you don't agree with their point, as if volume = stronger argument. So I'll just scream my point at the top of my lungs until people agree with me seems to be the system of "debate" that I get. Which really doesn't impress me one bit, and generally just lowers my estimation of the speakers mental faculties. at least in my local circle of friends and on the conservative talk shows I listen too (Rush, Mike Savage) people yelling actually hurts their credibility in my mind.

This is where they can often lose many people, not in the actual message, but in the delivery.

I still listen to these guys fairly regularly as I do agree with some of their points, but I wouldn't invite them out for lunch.

Spot on with what I was trying to say!! Just, i consider myself more of a centralist then left or right viewed. Just you are a bit more tolerant of people than I am.

When they start shouting, or acting snotty to a person with a different opinion, i simply no longer care what their viewpoints are, right or wrong, it doesn't matter, i just don't want to listen to that person because of how obnoxious they act, it doesn't mean that I instantly start to blindly disagree with the topic they view. .... i'm having a difficult time explaining this...

um.. ok maybe this, lets say I'm Luke, and Darth Vader comes to me and is all like, join the dark side!!! And i'm like, well I'm on the light side, and don't nessecarily agree with the dark side, but some things I do favor. Then Darth gets all bitch and is like, "LUKE WHAT GALAXY ARE YOU FROM?!?! THE DARKSIDE IS THE RIGHT WAY!! THE LIGHT SIDE SUCKS DONKEY BALLS!! FAG!!" Then i'm gonna be all like, you know what darth.. FUCK YOU!!! And then we'll have a whole thread full of shit goin on. When if Darth simply would just say, Luke, you know what, I was once a follower of the light side once, but that's because I didn't understand the Dark side then, but hell if you're willing to hear me out, I can tell you the method behind the motive of the Darkside and why I, along with others, feel it is practical to follow as opposed to the Light side, for one, the dark side gets shit done, yadda yadda, ect ect. And then I'll be like, really? That's cool bro.. eh dad.. eh whatever? I can see your side, the dark side really got shit done in that zone. I follow the light side because of ect ect, yadda yadda.

End result, we come to a mutual agreement, and are all like,

[StormKnight (1)]

Just from general observation, quite a few of the vocal conservatives (not all,) are of the mindset Slogo described. Granted, there are liberals that are just as extreme.

Example of a conservative tradition as protection for people (from both Kosher and Halal): the restriction of the eating of pork. Not hard to explain the reason. Pork has parasites which can survive most treatment processes of ancient times (smoking (you still cook bacon,) drying, turning to jerky, etc.,) and would be unsafe for ancient Middle East area consumption. For public safety, it was generally decided restrict pork for the health of all. This information was given to the holy men, as they were seen as leaders that could disseminate the information down to the people, through both sermon and in the holy books.

Now, with the advent of farming techniques, screening meat, and requiring pork to be cooked thoroughly, the safety of eating pork has improved. Yet these rules are still there in the holy books, taken as gospel, to the point where people with the conservative point of view will starve themselves, taking the rule set thousands of years ago as a public health issue as prime facie, with no need for other supporting evidence to do so.

Unfortunately, preserving the status quo can be detrimental. Classically, Socrates execution for asking the question of the conservative establishment "why?" (Which was radical/liberal at the time.) Galileo's radical (liberal,) thought of not putting the earth at the center of the universe led him to be persecuted by a conservative Church, only forgiven hundreds of years after his death. Galen, whose human anatomy texts were used from 200AD to the Renaissance, used dissections of animals instead of humans as the basis of internal anatomy drawings. These books were gospel, blindly followed by the conservative medical field at time and by the Church until Vesalius started basing his texts on human dissections.

Does it mean traditional ideas should be tossed aside completely? No. However, they need to stand up to a rigorous questioning why they should be still followed. Whether it is for utilitarian reasons, or as a means to progress society as a whole, nothing should be left unquestioned.

Perhaps a lot of my center-left-Existentialist leanings comes from the fact that I am in a career where I am the alpha and omega of responsibility of life and people. It is not just a license to cure, but a license that can kill as well, based on the best data that humans can extract from experiments and observations at the time of action. And that data gets added to and supplanted often, as research continues to progress. A constant moving target. If something goes bad, the question is not, "Why did God let this happen?" but, "Where did *I* make the mistake that caused this?" or "What did *I* miss to cause this to fail?" BISS (Because I Said So (usually a conservative/traditionalist view,)) and BGSS (Because God Said So,) don't sit well with me, as I usually have a hand in making things happen. If failings in my career could be assigned to God's will versus the human practitioner's own actions, malpractice need not exist. Society states otherwise, and in the end, it comes down to the practitioner's actions at the time based on the data available that makes it malpractice.

Views either conservative or liberal, allow me to compare and contrast myself. "Why is that way seem right in my eyes?" "Who side seems right in this day and age?" "Am I too far in one side vs. the other? And Why?"

Edited May 20, 2010 by StormKnight

[prick]

Nothing wrong with either side. Neither is right or wrong. Its which one fits the individual. I for one favor a socialist government and I get all kinf=ds of crap for that.

[Simon Bar Sinister]

I'm honestly curious on why a large majority of people on here think that leaning to the right or being conservative is such a horrible thing. I mean is it so wrong to have traditional values, believing in a limited government, and believe in God? Because I've gotten the vibe from many people here, that being conservative is wrong and being liberal is the only way to go.

So please explain to me why you think that way so I can understand your point of view.

My father fought in Korea for the last 14 months of the war over there. When he arrived in NYC (he took a 6-week trip on a troop transport ship home, as opposed to flying over the Pacific), he got a bus ticket to Laredo, Texas (he wasn't living here yet). When he got south of the Mason-Dixon line, he had to drink at "colored" fountains...eat at places that allowed coloreds...you get the picture. When I hear conservatives say they're for "traditional" values, that's the first tradition that comes to my mind. I think the worst of any conservative until they prove otherwise. Unfortunately, more often than not my suspicions have been proven right. I know that's the luck of the draw, but knowing that changes nothing.

[freydis]

Personally, I dont completely lean one way or the other.

I have opinions that coincide with both sides.

[TitsMcGee]

My father fought in Korea for the last 14 months of the war over there. When he arrived in NYC (he took a 6-week trip on a troop transport ship home, as opposed to flying over the Pacific), he got a bus ticket to Laredo, Texas (he wasn't living here yet). When he got south of the Mason-Dixon line, he had to drink at "colored" fountains...eat at places that allowed coloreds...you get the picture. When I hear conservatives say they're for "traditional" values, that's the first tradition that comes to my mind. I think the worst of any conservative until they prove otherwise. Unfortunately, more often than not my suspicions have been proven right. I know that's the luck of the draw, but knowing that changes nothing.

See, most people would think I was a racist because of where I grew up, but I am not. Racism is not a conservative value, no matter how people try to portray it as. Maybe it's dumb for me to quote the bible on this, but it's what I believe:

"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. Do to others as you would have them do to you.

Luke 6:27-31

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I am mostly staying out of this but I wante dto say...

Liberals and Progressives are not the same thing.

[phee]

Peoples politics in general follow them at their convenience.

"I am not a republican, but I am saving up to be one." - Emo Philips.

This is what I have observed, and granted this is only my observation. With most conservatives I have observed, they are only conservative until the issue they are conservative about is no longer convenient for them to feel that way any more. For example; I knew someone who had a big problem with welfare and people who live on it, until they found themselves in a position where they needed it all of a sudden and *poof* they still claimed to be conservative but they now had to STFU about welfare because they were on it. There was another person I knew had a problem with people living off "his money for their disability" until he hurt himself and got all butt hurt about how hard it was to get said disability (all of a sudden he changed his mind on the issue when it applied to him! when just a few months earlier he thought it was too easy to get disability).

Traditional values does not equal conservative IMO. Because who's traditions are we talking about??? My traditions??? Your traditions??? some old dead dude who wore a wigs traditions??? Generally I am with SBS on this one... Traditional values can excuse a lot of hatred and bigotry simply because people use to feel this way. Well gay marriage is not traditional, neither is medical marijuana. Should we not adapt to the way the world is changing around us?

I here a lot of talk from conservatives (and when the pendulum swings liberals) about taking "back" the country... how far back? From whom? Don't we share the country?

I think that perhaps it is also about approach. I have never heard a liberal wishing me physical harm for who and what I am, but I see conservatives (not all... but the ones that make noise) constantly talking about violence and rebellion against those with liberal mindsets as was quoted above.

"We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." - Ann Coulter

I do not want to associate myself with that kind of hate. And yes there might be a few bad apples that are spoiling the bunch.... but they are doing a really good job of making more and more bad apples.

[creatureofthenyte]

Don't forget about all the Democrats that protested Bush and called him Hitler.

And Pelosi who called Republicans and Tea Party supporters: Nazis, angry mobs, & such.

Also, what was the deal with the Black Panthers standing outside those polling places during the elections?

You wanna see what's so bad about a socialist government?

Look at Greece, and ask yourself if that's what you want to happen here.

I think both sides are guilty of violent intentions, or have been at various points in time.

Phee quotes Ann Coulter, and what she said was pretty bad...

but,

to counterpoint that, I ask, what about that group of SEIU union members who kicked the crap out of that unemployed guy who was selling "Don't Tread On Me" merchandise at that rally last year ?

What did he do to deserve that ??

I think that the point/counterpoint on issues between liberals & conservatives is a never ending road.

My views tend to lean toward Conservatism, but I have no problem with anyone who's views lean toward liberalism; I just disagree with a lot of those views.

Maybe I will never agree with a Liberal on politics, but I think there may be a lot of other things I can agree with a Liberal on; like the love of Coffee.

I don't think there is anything wrong with being a Conservative or Liberal; I think its a conundrum.

[phee]

You wanna see what's so bad about a socialist government?

Look at Greece, and ask yourself if that's what you want to happen here.

I can see your points pretty well sir... but I am not sure where this statement came from... is this what we were talking about?

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

what does socialistm have to do with liberal and conservative? I'm pretty sure socialism would fall under the category of society (hell even the words are similar) And a completely socialist government wound suck ass, but some things do need to be socialist in society, like police, fire fighters, certain public services, and yes, even health care should be socialist imo. But we're diving off into a different can of worms here.