What exactly is wrong with being conservative?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

This is true... again... I am not saying that Obama is GOOD... only that he is not AS BAD.

Both are kind of f-ups in their own way... Bush Killed thousands of Americans for no reason, and Obama did not lay a wreath.

Wow. and you even pushed that "lie" bullshit again in one of your other posts. You really need to look up the definition of the word Lie. Every intelligence agency in the world said Iraq had WMD's. Bush acted on the intelligence he had at the time. Thats not lieing, thats being misinformed. He also had 17 UN resolutions and a signed Ceast fire agreement that Iraq failed to hold thier end up on. Lets not forget that we chose, for political reasons, to ingore the actual WMDs that were found. (lets ignore the 400,000+ we found in mass graves too)

and yes.. Bush sent troops off to die in a war you dont support... and Obama has sent children to live in tent citys and has put record numbers of Americans on food stamps.

then again, if this Sestak things pans out... Obama isn't going to be President for much longer.

as for Conservative bands... read what I said again... There is the message they give in thier album and song titles... and the actual words they say in the songs... but the openly conservative ones... the Misfits come to mind...Joey Ramone... The Vandals.. Bauhaus...

[phee]

Wow. and you even pushed that "lie" bullshit again in one of your other posts. You really need to look up the definition of the word Lie. Every intelligence agency in the world said Iraq had WMD's. Bush acted on the intelligence he had at the time. Thats not lieing, thats being misinformed. He also had 17 UN resolutions and a signed Ceast fire agreement that Iraq failed to hold thier end up on. Lets not forget that we chose, for political reasons, to ingore the actual WMDs that were found. (lets ignore the 400,000+ we found in mass graves too)

and yes.. Bush sent troops off to die in a war you dont support... and Obama has sent children to live in tent citys and has put record numbers of Americans on food stamps.

then again, if this Sestak things pans out... Obama isn't going to be President for much longer.

as for Conservative bands... read what I said again... There is the message they give in thier album and song titles... and the actual words they say in the songs... but the openly conservative ones... the Misfits come to mind...Joey Ramone... The Vandals.. Bauhaus...

which industrial/gothic/punk bands and evidence have you seen that actually have agreed with conservative ideals? (At least within the last 20 years or so...)

Hence the last 20 years I was wondering about.

Yes... based on everything I saw, bush lied. And again I am NOT defending Obama here.... just stating a response about the "applaud comment" from earlier.

[phee]

As far as Sestak.... are you referring to the job offer?

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

Since when were WMD's found?? I was there when the whole thing started off and have had several followup deployments. Troops talk amongst eachother, and though most share a republican and/or conservative mindview, none found any WMD's. And If i remember right, those who said there were no WMD's wer outed in the CIA, getting raped of both career and personal safety.

EDIT: I am also curious about these band's personal political view points. It seems illogical to sing/preach one way when you personally feel the other way. At least you know, if you're not a sell out, and there's still plenty of music geeks out there that would sound the sirens in this specific genre should one of our "gothy prophets" were ever a sell out...

Edited May 28, 2010 by Epic_Fail_Guy

[phee]

Since when were WMD's found?? I was there when the whole thing started off and have had several followup deployments. Troops talk amongst eachother, and though most share a republican and/or conservative mindview, none found any WMD's. And If i remember right, those who said there were no WMD's wer outed in the CIA, getting raped of both career and personal safety.

EDIT: I am also curious about these band's personal political view points. It seems illogical to sing/preach one way when you personally feel the other way. At least you know, if you're not a sell out, and there's still plenty of music geeks out there that would sound the sirens in this specific genre should one of our "gothy prophets" were ever a sell out...

So far.... (I have been looking around on the internet) I have not found more then the Ramones and the original lead singer of The Misfits that were considered "Conservative" but again I might not be looking in the right places... I have not found anyone in the last 20 years that have right leaning points of view from punk/goth/industrial sub culture....

Interesting article on this subject... I guess there are at least a handful out there: http://www.furious.com/perfect/conpunk.html

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Since when were WMD's found?? I was there when the whole thing started off and have had several followup deployments. Troops talk amongst eachother, and though most share a republican and/or conservative mindview, none found any WMD's. And If i remember right, those who said there were no WMD's wer outed in the CIA, getting raped of both career and personal safety.

Do we count the 550 metric tons of enriched Yellow Cake Uranium we found in Iraq and then sold to Canada?

How about the 500 chemical munitions that have been found?

The three unmanned arial attack planes with chemical sprayers?

The Long range missles with chemical warheads?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

btw... yes, the job offer. WE have these things called laws... they apply to Obama and his minions too.

[phee]

btw... yes, the job offer. WE have these things called laws... they apply to Obama and his minions too.

*sigh*

The hypocrisy of the political system makes me dizzy.... I wonder how many laws our previous presidents (including the last one) have broken and nothing (or at least very little) has happened to them for...

If Obama is breaking the law I hope he gets burned for it.... but it will be a pity if W and everyone else before got away with their illegal crap and Obama was the first one to be held accountable ....

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

Do we count the 550 metric tons of enriched Yellow Cake Uranium we found in Iraq and then sold to Canada?

How about the 500 chemical munitions that have been found?

The three unmanned arial attack planes with chemical sprayers?

The Long range missles with chemical warheads?

I need your source for these claims. I'm not disagreeing with you, but you must understand that you're arguing against years of frustration of many in my field of work that have not found anything at all, and not once from all the papers that have passed acrossed my desk have indicated towards anything being found.

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

*sigh*

The hypocrisy of the political system makes me dizzy.... I wonder how many laws our previous presidents (including the last one) have broken and nothing (or at least very little) has happened to them for...

If Obama is breaking the law I hope he gets burned for it.... but it will be a pity if W and everyone else before got away with their illegal crap and Obama was the first one to be held accountable ....

You forgot about good ol' Billy clinton smokin dope and havin fun with plump interns! If I remember, the Republicans threw a tempertantrum until he was Impeached indirectly for that.

Now Bush got away with god.. so many things it's unreasonable to try to list them all and I hate to admit it, but pick up Michal Moore's book, "Stupid White Men" Once you seperate his bullshit from his listed facts, you'll see all the atrocities Bush did that lead to him being considered the worst president ever.

Now that we have Obama, everyone's grabbing their pitch forks and torches and doing the same tempertantrum act as was before with clinton, only adding a new twist and calling themselves Tea Baggers, er partiers, or whatever.

[phee]

Ugh there I am again... talking about Bush... at least this time I didn't open the door.

But I really think the comparison is a strange one... Both Bush and Obama were president... but it is like comparing apples and oranges in all fairness.

[torn asunder]

hey, you know what guys? this isn't the "bush vs. obama" thread, it's "what's wrong with being conservative".

you're more than welcome to have this debate (again) but not here...

let's get back on topic, ok?

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

I need your source for these claims. I'm not disagreeing with you, but you must understand that you're arguing against years of frustration of many in my field of work that have not found anything at all, and not once from all the papers that have passed acrossed my desk have indicated towards anything being found.

One declassified government report can cover some of my claims.

http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Iraq_WMD_Declassified.pdf

and one of the government websites...

http://www.defense.gov/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=15918

and phee...

Crimes and Criminal Procedure - 18 USC Section 600

Whoever, directly or indirectly, promises any employment,

position, compensation, contract, appointment, or other benefit,

provided for or made possible in whole or in part by any Act of

Congress, or any special consideration in obtaining any such

benefit, to any person as consideration, favor, or reward for any

political activity or for the support of or opposition to any

candidate or any political party in connection with any general or

special election to any political office, or in connection with any

primary election or political convention or caucus held to select

candidates for any political office, shall be fined under this

title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.

I can only do that with two other Presidents... Nixon and Clinton. At least from modern times... If memory serves someone else broke the law too... and got impeached. Just can't remember who it was. My point is, Presidents can do a lot of nasty shit and not actually break any laws. So when one does, they get hammered hard or as Obama is doing and Nixon failed at doing, they cover it up.

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

Thanks Gaf, though they were all out of order and from the 80's and just kinda.. useless other than the harmful agents themselves, all those were the no surprise finds. There's a few quotes in the government site (didn't even click on the fox gossip link, as stated before in other threads I find that to be the most unreliable news source.) that debunk Sadam having active WMD's at the ready to unleash hell and havock are..

"The munitions addressed in the report were produced in the 1980s, Maples said. Badly corroded, they could not currently be used as originally intended, Chu added. "

-though they did make a good point if terrorists were to find them.. however Iraq, at the time we invaded, was almost on the verge of a civil war, and if found by locals, would most likely be used on eachother, nothing new to report about that from that country.

"I do believe the former regime did a very poor job of accountability of munitions, and certainly did not document the destruction of munitions," he said. "The recovery program goes on, and I do not believe we have found all the weapons."

-whether they were intentionally hidden, or documents fudged, it just looks like mainly they were just forgotten about. And any destroyed were either not documented, or documents lost. Again, it just shows how much their act wasn't together over there to be of any threat to us really compared to other countries.

One thing I want to point out is there was only mention of certain chemical agents such as mustard gas and sarin, rather older gasses, but still as deadly. NOTHING was mentioned about the "550 metric tons of enriched Yellow Cake Uranium" that you mentioned.. have a link to that? That is something I would have noticed for sure on my end. The old junky "WMD's" in that report, I very well could have overlooked since they were useless in their state. It's a similar principal to unexploded land mines and other ordinance lost during war, wich yes, there are plenty of "danger zones" in iraq for risk of random mines and bombs just chillin there, lost, like in many other countries.

What I'm getting at is, these weren't the WMD's everyone was expecting, but rather "war junk" you'd find in ANY country that has been fighting for generations upon generations.

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

Ugh there I am again... talking about Bush... at least this time I didn't open the door.

But I really think the comparison is a strange one... Both Bush and Obama were president... but it is like comparing apples and oranges in all fairness.

I think it's only going to be natural that this happens since the general feeling from most people is Bush as the posterchild for conservatives and now Obama is the new posterchild for democrats. Sorta like the icon, like a statue of Jesus or the cross would symbolize Christianity. Even when it's about conservatives vs liberals in general, you got some few that will, without thinking, bring up the poster childs. I think it would be nice if the OP would clear this up by talking about which specifics they are getting at, rather politicians, the masses, or just the folk here on dgn.

[torn asunder]

hey, you know what guys? this isn't the "bush vs. obama" thread, it's "what's wrong with being conservative".

you're more than welcome to have this debate (again) but not here...

let's get back on topic, ok?

that's funny - i could have sworn i mentioned something about...

[candyman]

I need your source for these claims. I'm not disagreeing with you, but you must understand that you're arguing against years of frustration of many in my field of work that have not found anything at all, and not once from all the papers that have passed acrossed my desk have indicated towards anything being found.

Iraq used chemical weapons again Iran and its own people...so what they just dropped the shit right after that and cleaned everything up? Hell no...crackheads let go of the habit long before nutbags let go of WMDs...

But all that is off topic anyways...

Most recently in news reports and at live events I have heard people on the liberal side describe the conservative side as a "virus" and other such nasty things. Mostly due to the great beer man who WAS a democrat dropping out of the race to be the Republican candidate for Gov. They said the conservative party was "cleansing" its ranks even though Dick Leinenkugel dropped out of the race for very good reasons that were somehow confused for an evil conspiracy...

Then again this happens every year to every side so what the hell is new? Oh...we can watch it all happen on the Ipad with lighting speed!

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

that's funny - i could have sworn i mentioned something about...

Torn, please see post directly above your own

I'm trying.. i'm trying already

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

FAILSAFE RULE #398: When a moderator gives public warning thread is off topic, it is still ok to go off topic as long as you state that it is off topic LOL!!!!!

I kid... i kid...

I say we legalize weed!!!! Then all the catfights between liberal's and conservatives won't be happening anymore, instead, it'll be a rock paper scissors match to see who has to go pick up all the pizza after it's ordered!

[TitsMcGee]

FAILSAFE RULE #398: When a moderator gives public warning thread is off topic, it is still ok to go off topic as long as you state that it is off topic LOL!!!!!

I kid... i kid...

I say we legalize weed!!!! Then all the catfights between liberal's and conservatives won't be happening anymore, instead, it'll be a rock paper scissors match to see who has to go pick up all the pizza after it's ordered!

Best.Idea.Ever

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

Fine... I'll try to keep on one train of thought... the wmd's argument is a fine example of the differnace in Liberal and Conservative thought though..

See... Iraq had certain legal obligations to the international community after the Gulf War. Conditions of thier surrender. One of the major conditions was that they declare and destroy all WMDs. ALL of them. So, to a conservative, one even old broken down long range missle with a chemical warhead that was bever declared and destroyed is a breach of said treaty. 17 UN resolutions, 11 years of international politics and the billions spent containing Saddam so he would stop attacking all his neighbors... amounted to the creation of Bin Laden, Al Quaida, the bombing of a few embasys, the bombing of the Cole and 9/11. All because Saddam didn't want to reveal his weak hand. It was what we did after taking Saddam out that was the fuckup as far as I am concerned.

[torn asunder]

Fine... I'll try to keep on one train of thought... the wmd's argument is a fine example of the differnace in Liberal and Conservative thought though..

See... Iraq had certain legal obligations to the international community after the Gulf War. Conditions of thier surrender. One of the major conditions was that they declare and destroy all WMDs. ALL of them. So, to a conservative, one even old broken down long range missle with a chemical warhead that was bever declared and destroyed is a breach of said treaty. 17 UN resolutions, 11 years of international politics and the billions spent containing Saddam so he would stop attacking all his neighbors... amounted to the creation of Bin Laden, Al Quaida, the bombing of a few embasys, the bombing of the Cole and 9/11. All because Saddam didn't want to reveal his weak hand. It was what we did after taking Saddam out that was the fuckup as far as I am concerned.

and how does this have anything to do with "what's wrong with being conservative"? just throwing in the phrase, "So, to a conservative,"... doesn't make it on-topic. go start another thread if you want to continue this - if someone does so, i'll move all the relevant posts over so as to both unclutter this one, and maintain this discussion in the new one...

Edited May 29, 2010 by torn asunder

[phee]

What's wrong with being a conservative?

I don't know... depends on the conservative.

What's wrong with being a liberal?

I don't know... depends on the liberal.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

and how does this have anything to do with "what's wrong with being conservative"? just throwing in the phrase, "So, to a conservative,"... doesn't make it on-topic. go start another thread if you want to continue this - if someone does so, i'll move all the relevant posts over so as to both unclutter this one, and maintain this discussion in the new one...

Simple. To a conservative, actual physical evidance means something. This is seen as a problem by people not conservative. It's "whats wrong with being a conservative." and exactly on topic. We can't talk about a political view point without dicecting it a bit.

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

that's actually both ends.. I see the liberals only hear what they want to hear, and conservatives do the same. For example, Gaf the links you posted had nothing to do about that 550 metric tons of enriched Yellow Cake Uranium, and 3 attack planes? Iraq has plenty of aircraft in their army still, fixed and rotary wing (airplanes and helicopters in case anyone is wondering)

And not to mention the "WMD's" that were actually found weren't the ones that the Bush administration lead us to believe existed, rather they were inoperable, old, outdated, lost, and unaccounted for munitions. I mean fair is fair, technically they found "WMD's", but basically they were still lying to us about exactly what their "sources" dictated was actually out there. I'm not trying to be a dick honestly, but just using you as an example since it is the most recent incident to make my point. See, you overlooked all that, these items didn't matter, just what mattered is you were "right" based on a technicality.