Draw Muhammad Day

[n0Mad]

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There. I drew Muhammad.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Spook

[phee]

SINCE WE ARE ON A PLAYGROUND

Are we multiplying things???

OH, then, "2 negatives are not going to make a positive!"

Not what I was saying exactly.... but sometimes standing up to a bully is the only way to get them to stop kicking your ass.

[bean]

Then again... "Don't draw my prophet or I will kill you," is kind of being a bully as well.

It is, you're right, and I think the threat is ridiculous.

I guess what my point was is that the response to that being "Draw Muhammad Day" is also ridiculous. It's not going to solve anything. All it will do is cause more tension. It's not worth it, in my opinion. There is already too much hostility on this planet in the name of religion. Besides, the Muslim extremists are not representative of all Muslims, now are they? I know many people have a problem with Muslims, so they are an easy target.

[Rev.Reverence]

Not what I was saying exactly.... but sometimes standing up to a bully is the only way to get them to stop kicking your ass.

TRUE.

BUT...are you (not you phee, you know what I mean) thinking of the other 999,975 out of 1,000,000 Muslims in the world, totally innocent of doing anything wrong to you?

Because, no one can tell me, that all Muslims are threatening any sort of war...you just can't.

[phee]

It is, you're right, and I think the threat is ridiculous.

I guess what my point was is that the response to that being "Draw Muhammad Day" is also ridiculous. It's not going to solve anything. All it will do is cause more tension. It's not worth it, in my opinion. There is already too much hostility on this planet in the name of religion. Besides, the Muslim extremists are not representative of all Muslims, now are they? I know many people have a problem with Muslims, so they are an easy target.

TRUE.

BUT...are you (not you phee, you know what I mean) thinking of the other 999,975 out of 1,000,000 Muslims in the world, totally innocent of doing anything wrong to you?

Because, no one can tell me, that all Muslims are threatening any sort of war...you just can't.

Correct on both counts....

Just presenting another point of view.

[Rev.Reverence]

Correct on both counts....

Just presenting another point of view.

Figured...& still thinkin' that other one out.

[candyman]

....wow.

Your bias just about matches theirs.

Just because someone can say or do whatever under the umbrella of free speech, doesnt mean its not tasteless and rude.

Tasteless are rude is still different is someones eyes. Look at simple things like belching...some countries you should not do it, and in other countries it is encouraged. Drawing their prophet would not be tasteless and rude unless you went over there and forced it on them through multiple media sources. Oh man wouldn't it be horrible if people did that to religions? Oh wait...

Just because someone can blah blah blah...why has this never been mentioned in regard to any of the other religions? If it was it was quickly put down and ignored while everything from light humor to incredibly disgusting humor goes on like nothing ever happened. So does your free speech umbrella resemble a real umbrella or does it contain a few well placed holes?

[phee]

People also to get that in almost 100% of Islamic nations, they make religiously slanderous images and stories about nearly anything non-muslim (but especially Jewish).

I will have to go with Rev here and say two wrongs don't make a right... It does not solve the root issue of intolerance. But again I am not sure why ones religion gets special walking on eggshell rights above other aspects.

A lot of things happen in poor taste... Every person who made Bush/Obama signs out to make them look like Hitler was in poor taste... But the only reason this seems to be drawing so much ire is because it is poor taste towards a religion, which makes such things off limits. Can you imagine if someone made a poster of Muhammad that made him to look like Hitler? Or Jesus out to look like Hitler? Or Buddah out to look like Hitler? Everyone would be pissed off... but you know what... it is freedom of speech, and just because the speech is against something religious does not mean it deserves it's own little loop hole.

[candyman]

People also to get that in almost 100% of Islamic nations, they make religiously slanderous images and stories about nearly anything non-muslim (but especially Jewish).

I will have to go with Rev here and say two wrongs don't make a right... It does not solve the root issue of intolerance. But again I am not sure why ones religion gets special walking on eggshell rights above other aspects.

A lot of things happen in poor taste... Every person who made Bush/Obama signs out to make them look like Hitler was in poor taste... But the only reason this seems to be drawing so much ire is because it is poor taste towards a religion, which makes such things off limits. Can you imagine if someone made a poster of Muhammad that made him to look like Hitler? Or Jesus out to look like Hitler? Or Buddah out to look like Hitler? Everyone would be pissed off... but you know what... it is freedom of speech, and just because the speech is against something religious does not mean it deserves it's own little loop hole.

I have seen Hitler Jesus before...Raptor Jesus was kinda funny before it was overused...but that was just bad. I have also seen a burning version of Hitler Bush wrapped in an American flag.

No two wrongs do not make a right. However, I see the world now as a large playground. Islam, or at least the extremist part of it, has turned into the kid that pulls pranks on everyone but threatens a school shooting if they do it to him. On the playground nobody cares about two wrongs not making a right...because if you stop the other kid won't since he does not share your theory. You gotta teach them a lesson...look how Christianity was taken down from the pedestal it had back in the day. Christianity was once untouchable and it was death if you tried...it was brought down and Islam will be too.

[phee]

I have seen Hitler Jesus before...Raptor Jesus was kinda funny before it was overused...but that was just bad. I have also seen a burning version of Hitler Bush wrapped in an American flag.

No two wrongs do not make a right. However, I see the world now as a large playground. Islam, or at least the extremist part of it, has turned into the kid that pulls pranks on everyone but threatens a school shooting if they do it to him. On the playground nobody cares about two wrongs not making a right...because if you stop the other kid won't since he does not share your theory. You gotta teach them a lesson...look how Christianity was taken down from the pedestal it had back in the day. Christianity was once untouchable and it was death if you tried...it was brought down and Islam will be too.

Good post

[Rev.Reverence]

People also to get that in almost 100% of Islamic nations, they make religiously slanderous images and stories about nearly anything non-muslim (but especially Jewish).

I will have to go with Rev here and say two wrongs don't make a right... It does not solve the root issue of intolerance. But again I am not sure why ones religion gets special walking on eggshell rights above other aspects.

A lot of things happen in poor taste... Every person who made Bush/Obama signs out to make them look like Hitler was in poor taste... But the only reason this seems to be drawing so much ire is because it is poor taste towards a religion, which makes such things off limits. Can you imagine if someone made a poster of Muhammad that made him to look like Hitler? Or Jesus out to look like Hitler? Or Buddah out to look like Hitler? Everyone would be pissed off... but you know what... it is freedom of speech, and just because the speech is against something religious does not mean it deserves it's own little loop hole.

You have the freedom to do what you will (another religion's tenant) & peoples have the right to 'bash' you for doing it...look at Tom Cruise, his religion made him very (very) happy, & he got bashed for it...

...& Jesus Hitler is already there...see:

Oh...& there are PLENTY of peoples ready to make fun of the Catholic Priesthood..though, only a few have done wrong...

AND..there are 1,000,001 variations on the jokes that are passed around mocking the clergy of nearly every religion...does that make it right?

When the outcome, is to trash another belief system, for the sole purpose of hurting them, that's just hurtful...NOTE: The Clergy did not hand this 'no graven image of allah or his prophet' edict...it was FROM Mohamett (Mohamed)...& to piss off a whole peoples, just because a few of them are douches...

...& to answer the previous query...

"That's hitting below the belt."

WARS, as history teaches us, very often, start over religions...best leave it alone.

[n0Mad]

Can you imagine if someone made a poster of Muhammad that made him to look like Hitler? Or Jesus out to look like Hitler? Or Buddah out to look like Hitler? Everyone would be pissed off...

You mean like these?

Doesn't piss me off. Maybe if I were Muslim or Jewish, some of these might irk me. But I am a devout Christian. I pray several times a day, attend church weekly if possible, teach Bible study on occasion, and give the children's sermon at church every couple months. Draw all the graven images of my savior that you want to; it doesn't bother me. I'm secure enough in my faith. Plus there's that whole "turn the other cheek" thing. Why get pissed off? Besides, any images or acts or such don't blaspheme me; they blaspheme God so let the punishment be his, right? Burn a cross on your lawn for all I care; it doesn't bother me. Now, burn one on my lawn and then I'll get pissed. Not necessarily because of the burning cross so much as violation of property rights.

Not just religion, I think people get too worked up over nothing. Can't we all just get along chill?

[phee]

WARS, as history teaches us, very often, start over religions...best leave it alone.

I could not have said it better myself.

[Rev.Reverence]

UM...Spook...not being 'argumentative'...but, this, is a 'proper' Buddha, this hand sign, is a yogic posture predating Nazis, by like, 4,000 years (or so)...so is too, the noble swastika, it is a charm for 'luck' & prosperity.

[Raev]

.

edit-I feel too strongly on this, to weigh in rationally.

Edited May 20, 2010 by Raev

[phee]

I agree.

I won't publicly side with any religion nor speak out against them. Do I have strong feelings on it? Yes.

Antagonizing someones religion, no matter WHICH side you are on - is one of the douchiest things ever.

A joke doesn't bother me - but antagonistic behavior does.

In fact, I can't even voice on here how low I think of that kind of behavior. I'd have to have myself banned for it.

I am curious do you think that one group of religious folks bashing another different group of religious folks is better or worse then a group of religious folks bashing a group of non religious folks or vice versa?

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

Hm this strikes up another possible topic of symbolism. Most, I think, would know that the swastika was a very positive symbol before the nazi's got their hands on it. And maybe that's why they did, sorta a superstitious thing to give them the good will and luck in their goals because, after all, in their eyes, they were doing a noble thing. Sort of like how we have all sorts of symbols on our currency, like the arrows and olive branches the eagle holds in it's talons on the older quarters, or like the all seeing eye on the back of a dollar bill (wich was actually an Illuminati sign) ect ect.

I think religious prophets are more of a symbol now adays than they are "prophetic" Christian symbol is a cross for obvious means, yet it has been warped and twisted in so many ways. I do agree with phee's argument that their religeon should not have special immunities to this, and the fact that in a rather unorthodox way, this retaliation is standing up to the few extremist "bullies" by telling them, "Hey, we've had enough of you trying to cram this shit down our throat, FUCK OFF!" but the problem with this is they're attacking the whole group, not just the extremists. A silly cartoon depicting terrorists acting like total fools wearing boxer shorts on their head is all gravy in my book, wich has been the case for a while, but what I see happening is these extremists are being the few bad apples that are spoiling the whole bunch in the eyes of everyone else. They are a culture that most know very little about, and barely understand. The few all of a sudden start stiring shit up in the name of this culture.. it gives it a bad name as a whole unfortunately.

[bean]

I am curious do you think that one group of religious folks bashing another different group of religious folks is better or worse then a group of religious folks bashing a group of non religious folks or vice versa?

I know you were asking someone else this, but I wanted to put in my two cents.

I think it is all equally wrong.

I don't believe in God, and I can't tell you how much shit I get for it from people of all religious faiths, and it's not right. It also would not be right for me to bash other people's religious beliefs.

[Raev]

I am curious do you think that one group of religious folks bashing another different group of religious folks is better or worse then a group of religious folks bashing a group of non religious folks or vice versa?

I don't see one or the other being better or worse.

Bashing something very personal and important in a persons life is terrible. Even NOT believing is a personal and important part of somebodies life. I am disgusted no matter which way it goes.

Religious bashing atheists irritates me.

Atheists bashing religious irritates me.

Religious bashing religious irritates me.

[phee]

I guess another way to say it is... (and I will try to do this in a DELIBERATELY ABSURD way as to not step on anyones toes.)

Lets take an activity that is really strange by most peoples standards.... maybe not even blatantly violent or anything but just odd. For example, lets say dipping your head in red paint and running down the street in nothing but a skirt while dropping sunflower seeds on the grass....

I do this in the name of my political party.... I am a nutjob.

I do this in the name of my favorite band... I am a psycho fan.

I do this in the name of a sports fan... I take my team way too seriously and probably looked at as drunk.

I do this because my employer asks me to.... I have a lawsuit

I do this because my religion dictates it.... well I might be thought of as several of the above things, but now, to say anything knowing that it is about my religion... it is disrespectful, insensitive, and insulting.... So by the "don't pick on someones religion because that is below the belt" standards.... all I really have to do is tell people that it is my religion that is dictating the behavior and I get a pass of sorts....

Again agree with Rev....

WARS, as history teaches us, very often, start over religions...best leave it alone.

(And I don't think you meant to make an argument for Atheism here but you make a very good one).

Yes... leave religions alone.... completely! and we would not have to worry about Wars being started over this crap.... (to quote John Lennon... imagine no religion). People have plenty of reasons to kill each other... without religion added to the mix to fuel the fire.

[freydis]

I am curious do you think that one group of religious folks bashing another different group of religious folks is better or worse then a group of religious folks bashing a group of non religious folks or vice versa?

Personally, I think insulting whole nations based on what a small radical fringe did is ignorant behaviour.

Free speech is free speech. They have every right to say/do it.

And I also have every right to call it tacky and tasteless, disagree with it and not participate in it.

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

this is more of what I would find appropriate..

http://www.killfrog.com/animations-of/34-animations/127-ultimate-survivor-afghanistan-part-1.html

http://www.killfrog.com/animations-of/34-animations/81-ultimate-survivor-afghanistan-part-2.html

Targeting the taliban specifically, not a blanket insult on all muslims.

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

Here's a more recent news article about this whole movement..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/37253579#37253579

[freydis]

I guess another way to say it is... (and I will try to do this in a DELIBERATELY ABSURD way as to not step on anyones toes.)

Lets take an activity that is really strange by most peoples standards.... maybe not even blatantly violent or anything but just odd. For example, lets say dipping your head in red paint and running down the street in nothing but a skirt while dropping sunflower seeds on the grass....

I do this in the name of my political party.... I am a nutjob.

I do this in the name of my favorite band... I am a psycho fan.

I do this in the name of a sports fan... I take my team way too seriously and probably looked at as drunk.

I do this because my employer asks me to.... I have a lawsuit

I do this because my religion dictates it.... well I might be thought of as several of the above things, but now, to say anything knowing that it is about my religion... it is disrespectful, insensitive, and insulting.... So by the "don't pick on someones religion because that is below the belt" standards.... all I really have to do is tell people that it is my religion that is dictating the behavior and I get a pass of sorts....

Again agree with Rev....

(And I don't think you meant to make an argument for Atheism here but you make a very good one).

Yes... leave religions alone.... completely! and we would not have to worry about Wars being started over this crap.... (to quote John Lennon... imagine no religion). People have plenty of reasons to kill each other... without religion added to the mix to fuel the fire.

I think youre missing the point.

No one really gets a "pass" for religion. Does showing even just a little bit of cultural sensitivity seem like a "pass" to you? The same sort of cultural bias you're showing is often what gets us as a nation in trouble with other nations.

Much of your arguement here is very ethnocentric. You show disdain for something you don't really understand, and seem to be making the arguement that because you don't believe the same thing and think it absurd, that it's ok to make fun of it and offend the person engaging in that behaviour.

This kind of behaviour is boorish, and in poor taste.

I'm not a big fan of Islam, myself, but I have enough respect for another's culture that I'm not going to go throwing pig guts or shoes at a mosque.

[phee]

I think youre missing the point.

No one really gets a "pass" for religion. Does showing even just a little bit of cultural sensitivity seem like a "pass" to you? The same sort of cultural bias you're showing is often what gets us as a nation in trouble with other nations.

Much of your arguement here is very ethnocentric. You show disdain for something you don't really understand, and seem to be making the arguement that because you don't believe the same thing and think it absurd, that it's ok to make fun of it and offend the person engaging in that behaviour.

This kind of behaviour is boorish, and in poor taste.

I'm not a big fan of Islam, myself, but I have enough respect for another's culture that I'm not going to go throwing pig guts or shoes at a mosque.

Where am I making fun of anything?