dealing with death

[aequorea]

I learned today that a friend of mine committed suicide yesterday.

Now there is an Ari-shaped hole in the world, and I am sitting on my back porch getting drunk on wine.

I am trying to process, and I thought that people here might have some interesting reflections or advice.

There are two things that make this situation a little unusual:

1. Ari was schizophrenic. I don't think he was content. I know he struggled with the pros and cons of medication.

2. I taught his younger sister and his cousin - they are the ones who contacted me. The cousin is a senior in high school.

I believe that Ari is better off wherever he is now. However, I think this is a reflection of my own experiences of mental illness and just wanting the struggle to be OVER. Also, my research on schizophrenia led me to believe that there was little hope for him to ever be content, truly himself and truly happy. I don't know if that's true or not.

Ari chose to leave.

I have mixed emotions on this. On the one hand, I am grateful that he is no longer struggling. On the other hand, I know that I survived periods of suicidal thoughts and plans, and I am basically content today. I am not comparing my struggles to his, just trying to process things through the only parallels I know.

Is suicide a coward's escape, or a way of letting go? Or both? Does it matter if there is a husband/wife, or children?

I'm having coffee with the cousin tomorrow, and I need to sort through some of my own emotions first.

Please comment. Disagreeing is all good, but please be polite about it.

[TitsMcGee]

Having lost two family members from suicide, I can understand what you're dealing with. I can also understand why someone would commit suicide, I've struggled with thoughts and still do. It's not easy, especially if you have one of the "badder" mental illnesses.

Suicide for the person doing it is easy. It's only hard for the people left behind. My brother in law left behind my sister and two young children, who still have problems. I suffer from recurring nightmares because I had to direct the crime scene clean up people on what to do. Those are memories you can never get out of your head.

People say only cowards kill themselves..but I think I've come to the conclusion that sometimes that the only thing that will help that person. No matter how much it hurts those that are left behind.

I'm sorry for your loss.

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

Well it's nothing sever as skitsofrenia but I have been diagnosed with Manic Depression. Some days are cool, and I can usually maintain my emotional stability for longer periods of time than before, but other times, it's just triggered, there are some things that consistantly trigger it, and other times, it's just random. It can last for days, and sometimes weeks. The struggles can be unreal at times. But it may sound stupid, I'm just too stubborn to quit. Life or this sickness wants to try to muscle me into giving up, heh fuck that.. This is my life, and I don't care how long, if even be the rest of my life I'm tormented by this (with or without meds, they never do what they promise rather, remove all feelings BUT the depression) each day that I make it through, is a day I've won, and it's lost, even when it's tag teaming me with it's buddy PTSD from 3 deployments. Even when I just think there's no hope, and the depression won't end, I get pissed off and frusterated and continue to focus that rage back against it. I'll think to myself, "What, you're too stupid to learn all these last times that this shit aint gonna do me in? Fine, lets go one more round motherfucker, BRING IT ON!" But then again, I don't know how I got such a strong will and mentality to endure it all these years, and I'm not trying to toot my horn or anything because suicide has always been a small coping skill in a way, just knowing there is an exit, a way out sometimes... it just helps, sorta like I still have some control or power, that I don't have to endure this torture at it's whims, but I still have the power to stop it whenever I please.

But I'll let you in on a secret, (since nobody knows me personally on this board, i find it easy to say this)

I envy those who said enough is enough and ended it sometimes.

Will I ever commit suicide? I don't think so, like I said, I'm just too stubborn to quit.

[~Tszura~]

First of all, I'm so sorry you have to go through this.

When people choose to leave, it's the ones who are still living in this world that need to deal with the pain, confusion, and loss of it all. There may be a "better place," there may not be. I say one can believe anything that makes them feel better. Unless the person dying left a note or something, we can never figure out the "why's" or "what ifs" of it all. We can ponder, and try to understand, but we need to realize that some things are just unanswerable. So I say, in the end, go with whatever makes you feel better.

I lost one of my best friends 2 years ago last Thursday. She was gorgeous, intelligent, social, she had a great job, and could easily have been the envy of many people. The world was at her fingertips, and she still let it all go. She had issues with depression all of her life, and was diagnosed with MS the last year she was alive. She also had no impulse control, which was what made her both crazy fun, yet crazy dangerous. She was my partner in crime, and I miss her terribly. I'm still very sad, and pissed off about it, and I will always deal with the guilt of feeling like I wasn't there for her somehow. Ultimately, I know deep down inside that there was nothing I could do about it, as it was her choice, and her choice alone. What I hope you are able to get the person to see today, is that suicide is indeed a choice, and that no matter what, there was nothing they could have done differently to change Ari's mind. I still have no idea why my friend made her choice. Was it the MS, her depression, impulses, ultimate statement on life/view of the world, or all of them? I don't know, and I will never know.

People live with mental illness everyday, and they deal with it all in different ways. For me, unless someone has absolutely no control over their life, such as in being a quadriplegic, or they are physically suffering some debilitating illness 99.9 percent of the time, its hard for me to be "ok" with suicide as an option. With mental illness, I realize the suffering can feel just as bad, but I also feel like there's an entire universe of solutions, and tools to try before someone ends it all.

Whether cowardice, letting go, or something else, its a choice. A choice that they made. A choice that they had control over. And now its a choice that you and your friend have to struggle with, and make some sense out of it.

It sounds like you have a positive perspective, and I know you can impart that on Ari's cousin today. Its definitely a struggle, but I think you will do well in guiding your old student onto a path of healing.

:grouphug

I learned today that a friend of mine committed suicide yesterday.

Now there is an Ari-shaped hole in the world, and I am sitting on my back porch getting drunk on wine.

I am trying to process, and I thought that people here might have some interesting reflections or advice.

There are two things that make this situation a little unusual:

1. Ari was schizophrenic. I don't think he was content. I know he struggled with the pros and cons of medication.

2. I taught his younger sister and his cousin - they are the ones who contacted me. The cousin is a senior in high school.

I believe that Ari is better off wherever he is now. However, I think this is a reflection of my own experiences of mental illness and just wanting the struggle to be OVER. Also, my research on schizophrenia led me to believe that there was little hope for him to ever be content, truly himself and truly happy. I don't know if that's true or not.

Ari chose to leave.

I have mixed emotions on this. On the one hand, I am grateful that he is no longer struggling. On the other hand, I know that I survived periods of suicidal thoughts and plans, and I am basically content today. I am not comparing my struggles to his, just trying to process things through the only parallels I know.

Is suicide a coward's escape, or a way of letting go? Or both? Does it matter if there is a husband/wife, or children?

I'm having coffee with the cousin tomorrow, and I need to sort through some of my own emotions first.

Please comment. Disagreeing is all good, but please be polite about it.

[TygerLili]

First of all: I am very sorry to hear of your loss!

Second of all: Based on my experiences, the only instance where I think suicide is a satisfactory answer to one's problems is in cases of terminal, debilitating illness as a means to shorten the suffering. Like many people I know, I have suffered with bouts of depression and had suicidal thoughts. But I could never actually go through with it, and do that to my friends and family. There are so many other things one can try, and in the end it really is the ultimate act of selfishness.

Edited May 30, 2010 by TygerLili

[Darkmatter]

I am trying to process,

Time is the answer.Don't try to process to hard , just look at what's right in front of you. Having lost many friends , and family members to early deaths I can tell you with no uncertainty that you must not dwell too much on what has happened because that is done, rather try to hold onto the good memories you have of your dear friend. Then he will live on in a way.

Looking to far ahead may cause one to lose perspective. Only love can heal these types of wounds, not suffering.

[Lillylu29]

Time is the answer.Don't try to process to hard , just look at what's right in front of you. Having lost many friends , and family members to early deaths I can tell you with no uncertainty that you must not dwell too much on what has happened because that is done, rather try to hold onto the good memories you have of your dear friend. Then he will live on in a way.

Looking to far ahead may cause one to lose perspective. Only love can heal these types of wounds, not suffering.

+1

Sorry to hear.....

[Raev]

ah shit, V.

Call me.

[aequorea]

Thank you to everyone for posting your thoughts. I think reflecting and pondering is the best thing for me right now.

In a way, I grieved for Ari when I learned his diagnosis. He and I spent a lot of time talking about his experiences: times when he knew his actions were "crazy," times when he felt lifted up by his altered perspective of the world, times when he took his meds and just felt dead and drained.

After some thought, I can conceive of a possible future where he would have been able to accept himself as is and find a stable way to live. I just keep coming back to the fact that wherever he is, he is no longer suffering.

I think Nathan (the cousin) will make it okay. He's just had a really difficult time for the last few years, and this has hit him hard. The good thing is that he is talking, rather then locking it all in.

Epic Fail Guy - I know what you mean about envying those who have succeeded! I have felt that way too. I have often felt that death would be a release. I think that may be part of the reason for my current perspective. I use tattoos as a talisman against this - symbols for emotional strength and endurance, mostly.

Raev - I love you (HUGS)

I am working 70 hours a week and barely even speak to my housemate, which is why I am so out of touch with the world (and you in particular). I have been resenting this job for a long time, but I am really upset that it has kept me from seeing Ari much this past year. I'm trying to let go of that though, because there's nothing I can do about it.

Thank you DGN for letting me use/abuse this forum for my own emotional needs!

[Raev]

I wondered where my V vanished to. My phone is always on to you, my door always open. Vent away. Question away. I'm always here for you, my friend. Responding to your PM now.

[prick]

I have had suicidal thoughts in my life untill I got married and became the father of my ex's 2 daughters. I didnt create them but they are mine then and still after the divorce. One hard part for me is I believe in reincarnation. Not as amimals and such but to come back as people over and over again to learn whatever it is were supposed to. With that means suicide makes you go through the same crap in the next life till you get it right. So I think you hurt others plus you just get stuck with the same problems again.

[KatRN05]

How I deal with death really depends on the situation. For instance, my grandmother is elderly, very frail, I know she does not have a lot of time left on this earth so I visit with her as often as I can. I know I will feel sad when she is gone, I will cry but I will move on because ultimately it was her time to go. My friend Carrie was murdered in January and I still think about it because it's so recent. I feel sad and angry all mixed together with quite a bit of rage. I haven't really gotten over it yet. It's hard.

I have not ever had someone close to me commit suicide. A co-worker's daughter committed suicide a few months ago. She attempted multiple times and received intense psychotherapy. Some people are going to think I'm insensitive for saying this, but sometimes it's better that the person is dead because they will have more peace in death than they would have ever had when they were alive.

Sorry about my rambling, been thinking about my friend. I'm sorry for your loss.

Edited June 1, 2010 by KatRN05

[Msterbeau]

Sorry for your loss Victoria..

While I've never lost a friend or family to suicide, I have seen it's aftermath in people I've known, and I've had suicidal thoughts on and off for years, so I know the mindset from that end as well. I've also watched a person die before my very eyes.(Violently - Not something I recommend seeing in your lifetime if you can help it.) These are not easy things to deal with. As some have said, the hard part is left to the people who knew the deceased and must now carry on without them. I think some circumstances of death can be more difficult to deal with than others because you don't see it coming, have no time to prepare for it mentally and no chance to say goodbye, make amends, etc. I think the length of our mourning and working through the pain of loss depends on these issues as well as our own ability to say goodbye on our own terms and then let them go. (But not forget them.)

I agree with KatRN05 - Some people live in such mental turmoil, they are likely better off moving on to whatever lies beyond life in their human body.

You're always welcome to call or PM if you want to talk.