pole dancing for 6-year-olds?

[Simon Bar Sinister]

promoted as gymnastics:

http://www.salon.com/life/children/index.html?story=/mwt/broadsheet/2010/07/28/pole_dancing_kids

[phee]

Makes you wonder... on the one hand, pole dancing is very much associated with sexuality and adult entertainment...

On the other hand... Kids that young are allowed to do ballet, which is some of the most sexual dancing there is... It's kind of like the difference between porn and erotica....

*shrugs* I give up...

[torn asunder]

the only thing i have to say about any of this crap anymore is that, in general, people are entirely too uptight...

Edited July 28, 2010 by torn asunder

[Rev.Reverence]

Torn...I will HAPPILY be relegated to the 'Old Fashioned Club', & PROUDLY wear your label of 'uptight'...this, is UNACCEPTABLE for 7 year olds...

...perhaps, when you too, have a child, you might see the point..& I certainly hope that you do.

[creatureofthenyte]

Torn...I will HAPPILY be relegated to the 'Old Fashioned Club', & PROUDLY wear your label of 'uptight'...this, is UNACCEPTABLE for 7 year olds...

...perhaps, when you too, have a child, you might see the point..& I certainly hope that you do.

I don't have kids, but I am with Rev on this.

Some parents let their kids get into this stuff at an early age like this, and it puts the WRONG mentality into their heads.

If girls want to pole dance when they get older, that's fine; when they are OLD ENOUGH to make that decision for themselves.

A 6yr old is not old enough to make that decision.

Kids should be kids when they are kids; and do things that Kids do.

If they want to do Adult things, they should wait until they are Adults.

6 year old girls pole dancing is atrocious and morally reprehensible in my opinion.

[torn asunder]

Torn...I will HAPPILY be relegated to the 'Old Fashioned Club', & PROUDLY wear your label of 'uptight'...this, is UNACCEPTABLE for 7 year olds...

...perhaps, when you too, have a child, you might see the point..& I certainly hope that you do.

1) i don't plan on having kids.

2) i'm sick to death of people throwing out that tired old "when you have kids you'll feel different" shit. you don't know me - maybe it *wouldn't* change my thoughts at all!? either way, that statement is dismissive and implies that my opinions aren't valid, and what gives you the right to dismiss me like that? (and don't say "cuz i have kids" that's not the point - i'm sure even rapists & child molesters have kids, do you think their opinions are better than mine?)

3) you chose a pic with a provocative pose in it, but what was the dance routine like? was it really that bad? i can't tell from that pic, but how are those outfits any different from this?

gymnasts have to start *very* young in order to do well. are you saying gymnastics should be outlawed?

4) this wouldn't even be an issue if the bar was horizontal instead of vertical (gymnastics). know what that means? it means that the offense being taken by adults on this topic is due to their own projections and mental images, not on the inherent "evilness" of the activity. hence, "people being too uptight'.

[StormKnight (1)]

Call me conservative on this point, but Oh HELL no! Not in this day in age.

I agree with CotN, Rev, and Phee on this. I have enough nephews and nieces to be worried about their all their safety. This type of dancing doesn't help at all.

Same reason I am not a fan kid beauty pageants. It just puts them up on a pedestal on looks alone and what I would consider, for lack of a better term, "stupid human tricks."

Let them be kids, let them generate self-esteem from knowledge and the accomplishment of goals, not for how they look. Let them take advantage of the plasticity of their minds to learn all they can, and yet still have time to play like normal children.

[creatureofthenyte]

1) i don't plan on having kids.

2) i'm sick to death of people throwing out that tired old "when you have kids you'll feel different" shit. you don't know me - maybe it *wouldn't* change my thoughts at all!? either way, that statement is dismissive and implies that my opinions aren't valid, and what gives you the right to dismiss me like that? (and don't say "cuz i have kids" that's not the point - i'm sure even rapists & child molesters have kids, do you think their opinions are better than mine?)

3) you chose a pic with a provocative pose in it, but what was the dance routine like? was it really that bad? i can't tell from that pic, but how are those outfits any different from this?

gymnasts have to start *very* young in order to do well. are you saying gymnastics should be outlawed?

4) this wouldn't even be an issue if the bar was horizontal instead of vertical (gymnastics). know what that means? it means that the offense being taken by adults on this topic is due to their own projections and mental images, not on the inherent "evilness" of the activity. hence, "people being too uptight'.

Well, when the term poll dancing is mentioned, the first thing that comes to mind is a stripper in a strip club.

I think you're missing the point.

I've never seen or heard poll dancing associated in any way with gymnastics.

A balance beam is not the same thing as a stripper pole.

Parallel bars and or uneven bars, that are used in a horizontal position, are also not the same as a stripper pole.

That picture shows 6 yr old girls doing something, that could some peoples' eyes be loosely related to pole dancing in a strip club.

The similarity can't be ignored; hence the offense taken.

I disagree with your opinion TA, however, I don't think badly of you for having any particular opinion. I support your choice to have the opinion(s) you have, just I do for anyone else, as I hope the same would be reciprocated for me.

Edited July 29, 2010 by creatureofthenyte

[torn asunder]

Well, when the term poll dancing is mentioned, the first thing that comes to mind is a stripper in a strip club.

I think you're missing the point.

I've never seen or heard poll dancing associated in any way with gymnastics.

A balance beam is not the same thing as a stripper pole.

Parallel bars and or uneven bars, that are used in a horizontal position, are also not the same as a stripper pole.

That picture shows 6 yr old girls doing something, that could some peoples' eyes be loosely related to pole dancing.

The similarity can't be ignored; hence the offense taken.

so, if a region of society had never heard of a stripper pole, but was teaching their kids gymnastics on a "vertical bar", would you all condemn them for that? if you would, then it's *your* issue (the viewer), not theirs. and have you ever watched any gymnastics? aside from them not being topless, i've seen "worse" moves in gymnastics than i have in some strip clubs. it's all relative to viewpoint, as far as i'm concerned.

and honestly, what's wrong with strippers? what's wrong with the human body? (obviously, kids can't be naked) but what's wrong with emulating a strong, independent woman who's making her way in the world? again, it's all in the viewpoint. some women (and hell, male strippers too, for that matter) may find it degrading, or have a fucked up life from it, but there are those who use their natural talents to their advantage, and take a very strong, dominant approach to it that can be very validating and healthy.

crap, i have to go to work 15 minutes ago!

[Rev.Reverence]

1) i don't plan on having kids.

2) i'm sick to death of people throwing out that tired old "when you have kids you'll feel different" shit. you don't know me - maybe it *wouldn't* change my thoughts at all!? either way, that statement is dismissive and implies that my opinions aren't valid, and what gives you the right to dismiss me like that? (and don't say "cuz i have kids" that's not the point - i'm sure even rapists & child molesters have kids, do you think their opinions are better than mine?)

3) you chose a pic with a provocative pose in it, but what was the dance routine like? was it really that bad? i can't tell from that pic, but how are those outfits any different from this?

gymnasts have to start *very* young in order to do well. are you saying gymnastics should be outlawed?

4) this wouldn't even be an issue if the bar was horizontal instead of vertical (gymnastics). know what that means? it means that the offense being taken by adults on this topic is due to their own projections and mental images, not on the inherent "evilness" of the activity. hence, "people being too uptight'.

1) I know you do not plan children...sometimes, they happen though.

2)you MUST have missed the word "PERHAPS"..an empirical qualifier..is it not?..I had no pretense of judging your opinion, merely stating my own...I don't see any reason to get so defensive, yo, I did not attack you at all, Man...

3)Those outfits are VASTLY different...let me tell you how..yours is a leotard, used in gymnastics, the one I found (from the link in the story at the top, I DID NOT PICK IT) is club-wear, not fit for children, in the least...see how much skin is showing from the swoop down neck...the belly's exposed...that is how girls dress when they go trolling for cock...

4)Vertical, Horizontal...different, by exactly 90%...nothing is inherently evil, though, nearly everything on the material plane, DOES lend itself towards evil, & if we don't watch them, they do turn thusly...Oil is not evil, nor is money, but people's love for money, has led them to irresponcably drill for oil, & nearly killed us all, I'ld call that 'evil'...a word I do not use lightly, & did not apply to this situation...

so, if a region of society had never heard of a stripper pole, but was teaching their kids gymnastics on a "vertical bar", would you all condemn them for that? if you would, then it's *your* issue (the viewer), not theirs. and have you ever watched any gymnastics? aside from them not being topless, i've seen "worse" moves in gymnastics than i have in some strip clubs. it's all relative to viewpoint, as far as i'm concerned.

and honestly, what's wrong with strippers? what's wrong with the human body? (obviously, kids can't be naked) but what's wrong with emulating a strong, independent woman who's making her way in the world? again, it's all in the viewpoint. some women (and hell, male strippers too, for that matter) may find it degrading, or have a fucked up life from it, but there are those who use their natural talents to their advantage, and take a very strong, dominant approach to it that can be very validating and healthy.

crap, i have to go to work 15 minutes ago!

That example, is totally off for the situation..but to answer it, NO..I would not judge another from a different tribal-way...but, this is NOT the case...this IS, in our society, (extended, as it is.)

NOTHING WRONG with strippers...but, MORE become (or start) as damaged than not (the cocaine probably doesn't help either)...& this, is indicative of the industry on a whole, from what I have seen (behind the scene)...who the fuck said there was something WRONG with strippers???

EDIT TO ADD:

Yes...gymnastics moves, can be viewed as 'dirty', or 'erotic'...but, it is also, a hundreds of years old sport...

Edited July 29, 2010 by Rev.Reverence

[phee]

I agree with Rev on this.... kudos

[Rev.Reverence]

I agree with Rev on this.... kudos

Thanx,Phee...I was hungry...

*eats Kudos bar*

[bean]

Call me conservative on this point, but Oh HELL no! Not in this day in age.

I agree with CotN, Rev, and Phee on this. I have enough nephews and nieces to be worried about their all their safety. This type of dancing doesn't help at all.

Same reason I am not a fan kid beauty pageants. It just puts them up on a pedestal on looks alone and what I would consider, for lack of a better term, "stupid human tricks."

Let them be kids, let them generate self-esteem from knowledge and the accomplishment of goals, not for how they look. Let them take advantage of the plasticity of their minds to learn all they can, and yet still have time to play like normal children.

[Eevee]

You're basing it off outfits now? Have you ever been to a dance recital?

Have you ever been to a dance competition?

The big dance companies think its cute to have their little girls dress up in outfits like that. They think its cute when they can dance in a sassy manner. I've seen girls get applauded for dancing with sass in a routine.

I'm not going to comment on the stripper pole classes because I don't feel like dealing with the arguments that a few grown men have started.

And ballet?

Sexual?

What?

When I started learning ballet, it wasn't sexual. Still isn't. Its all plie, grande saute, etc. etc. Stiff routines in poofy dresses. Yeah, maybe in fancy big companies that are really experienced and have routines that mean something rather then just girls running and leaping and spinning across a stage it is different...but that's a totally seperate situation.

[creatureofthenyte]

You're basing it off outfits now? Have you ever been to a dance recital?

Have you ever been to a dance competition?

The big dance companies think its cute to have their little girls dress up in outfits like that. They think its cute when they can dance in a sassy manner. I've seen girls get applauded for dancing with sass in a routine.

I'm not going to comment on the stripper pole classes because I don't feel like dealing with the arguments that a few grown men have started.

And ballet?

Sexual?

What?

When I started learning ballet, it wasn't sexual. Still isn't. Its all plie, grande saute, etc. etc. Stiff routines in poofy dresses. Yeah, maybe in fancy big companies that are really experienced and have routines that mean something rather then just girls running and leaping and spinning across a stage it is different...but that's a totally seperate situation.

Very good points indeed. However, seriously, when you hear the term : "pole dancing" what is the 1st image that comes into your mind ?

[phee]

Very good points indeed. However, seriously, when you hear the term : "pole dancing" what is the 1st image that comes into your mind ?

[Eevee]

Very good points indeed. However, seriously, when you hear the term : "pole dancing" what is the 1st image that comes into your mind ?

It said in the article that they didn't call it "pole dancing"...they termed it as gymnastics but they included a pole into the exercises or whatever.

I'm not joining in on this part of the conversation.

But I'm just saying, its not like the place was openly calling it pole dancing.

[Destroit]

so, if a region of society had never heard of a stripper pole, but was teaching their kids gymnastics on a "vertical bar", would you all condemn them for that? if you would, then it's *your* issue (the viewer), not theirs. and have you ever watched any gymnastics? aside from them not being topless, i've seen "worse" moves in gymnastics than i have in some strip clubs. it's all relative to viewpoint, as far as i'm concerned.

and honestly, what's wrong with strippers? what's wrong with the human body? (obviously, kids can't be naked) but what's wrong with emulating a strong, independent woman who's making her way in the world? again, it's all in the viewpoint. some women (and hell, male strippers too, for that matter) may find it degrading, or have a fucked up life from it, but there are those who use their natural talents to their advantage, and take a very strong, dominant approach to it that can be very validating and healthy.

crap, i have to go to work 15 minutes ago!

What's wrong with little girls being strippers? Okay...what's wrong with a six year old girl taking some dick? That's where we're headed next in society . Any amount of sexuality from anyone without proper sexual organs (i.e. adults and teens) is WRONG. Period.

And if pole dancing was just vertical bars and spins in leotards? I would say throw it on the gymnastic line-up. But when there's six year old girls marching out in more make-up and sleezier shit than your average crackwhore on Michigan Avenue rubbing the tits and vagina they don't even have seductively on a pole to try and arouse grown men (as the entire "pole dancing" thing is DESIGNED TO DO)...that's fucked up.

I normally don't call people flat out wrong...but if anyone condones this for children they are totally absolutely 100% beyond a reasonable doubt WRONG and INSANE :. Little girls are not made for sex...why do we keep trying to make them fulfill adult roles? Fucking disgusting, anyone who enrolls their daughter in this bullshit should have her taken away.

What's wrong with little girls being strippers? Okay...what's wrong with a six year old girl taking some dick? That's where we're headed next in society . Any amount of sexuality from anyone without proper sexual organs (i.e. adults and teens) is WRONG. Period.

And if pole dancing was just vertical bars and spins in leotards? I would say throw it on the gymnastic line-up. But when there's six year old girls marching out in more make-up and sleezier shit than your average crackwhore on Michigan Avenue rubbing the tits and vagina they don't even have seductively on a pole to try and arouse grown men (as the entire "pole dancing" thing is DESIGNED TO DO)...that's fucked up.

I normally don't call people flat out wrong...but if anyone condones this for children they are totally absolutely 100% beyond a reasonable doubt WRONG and INSANE :. Little girls are not made for sex...why do we keep trying to make them fulfill adult roles? Fucking disgusting, anyone who enrolls their daughter in this bullshit should have her taken away.

[creatureofthenyte]

What's wrong with little girls being strippers? Okay...what's wrong with a six year old girl taking some dick? That's where we're headed next in society . Any amount of sexuality from anyone without proper sexual organs (i.e. adults and teens) is WRONG. Period.

And if pole dancing was just vertical bars and spins in leotards? I would say throw it on the gymnastic line-up. But when there's six year old girls marching out in more make-up and sleezier shit than your average crackwhore on Michigan Avenue rubbing the tits and vagina they don't even have seductively on a pole to try and arouse grown men (as the entire "pole dancing" thing is DESIGNED TO DO)...that's fucked up.

I normally don't call people flat out wrong...but if anyone condones this for children they are totally absolutely 100% beyond a reasonable doubt WRONG and INSANE :. Little girls are not made for sex...why do we keep trying to make them fulfill adult roles? Fucking disgusting, anyone who enrolls their daughter in this bullshit should have her taken away.

[Rev.Reverence]

@ Cherny.

[torn asunder]

What's wrong with little girls being strippers? Okay...what's wrong with a six year old girl taking some dick? That's where we're headed next in society . Any amount of sexuality from anyone without proper sexual organs (i.e. adults and teens) is WRONG. Period.

And if pole dancing was just vertical bars and spins in leotards? I would say throw it on the gymnastic line-up. But when there's six year old girls marching out in more make-up and sleezier shit than your average crackwhore on Michigan Avenue rubbing the tits and vagina they don't even have seductively on a pole to try and arouse grown men (as the entire "pole dancing" thing is DESIGNED TO DO)...that's fucked up.

I normally don't call people flat out wrong...but if anyone condones this for children they are totally absolutely 100% beyond a reasonable doubt WRONG and INSANE :. Little girls are not made for sex...why do we keep trying to make them fulfill adult roles? Fucking disgusting, anyone who enrolls their daughter in this bullshit should have her taken away.

so you've seen video of the gymnastics they were doing at the place referred to in the article? you know for a fact that the routines were sleazy & inappropriate?

show me anywhwere in that article that it said the routines were sexually suggestive or inappropriate - go ahead.

but the head of the studio, Pammy Cameron, says the classes are more accurately described as gymnastics, and "there are no sexy routines or provocative dance wear, it just so happens there's a pole involved."

the problem here is that *you* have projected your own assumptions onto this thing, and then ran with it. i mean, seriously - "six year old girls ... rubbing the tits and vagina they don't even have seductively on a pole" ? where the fuck does it say *anything* about that in the article? it doesn't, it's all in your imagination, what you *fear* those girls could be doing. you, just as everyone else whose posted against this in this thread, are *projecting* your imagined thoughts about what this entails, onto a specific situation you know nothing about. is this inappropriate for a kid to learn? which brings up something else, is this a girls-only class? would you all be just as offended if boys were learning this as a gymnastics routine?

anyway, do i think 6 yr olds actually doing stripper routines is out of line? of course! but that's not the issue here, is it? it's about gymnastics on a vertical pole, rather than a horizontal one. it's about people jumping to conclusions and making assumptions and personal projections without merit.

that's my take on this whole thing.

(and rev, yes, i was being a bit too defensive this morning. i'm just very weary of people always throwing the "you don't have kids, so your opinion is shit" thing in my face. sorry if i came across too harshly...)

[Rev.Reverence]

(and rev, yes, i was being a bit too defensive this morning. i'm just very weary of people always throwing the "you don't have kids, so your opinion is shit" thing in my face. sorry if i came across too harshly...)

I value opposing opinions...keeps the world turning, they say...

[scyko_kitty]

That is just utterly WRONG.... Pole-dancing should NEVER be thought to kids.... I have yet to have any biological children... but my Ex-girlfriend is raising her kids with me as the 2nd mother and I would FREAK if she tried to put our lil girl into pole-dancing classes....

[TygerLili]

I don't see why dancing with a vertical pole has to be a sexual thing, just because a number of strippers tend to use poles in their routines. I have seen little girls (and little boys for that matter) grab a hold of a vertical support pole and spin, climb, or otherwise play, and in no way was I given the impression that they were emulating strippers, porn stars, etc. As a parent, before enrolling your child in any type of activity, I think it's your responsibility to check it out and ask yourself "is this an activity that I feel comfortable with my child doing?" If you see an example of the type of dancing and outfits being used and you don't feel that they are especially sexual or otherwise inappropriate, and more importantly if your child wants to do this, then what's the harm in letting them? Just because we have a bias toward a certain activity because it has often been used in the sex industry does not mean that all forms of the activity itself are wrong. It can be just a fun way for kids, or adults, to exercise.

And, Phee, I disagree that ballet is sexual. I studied ballet for 8 years, and I never found anything to be sexual about it. It was my choice to take ballet classes, my parents didn't make me do it. Yes, certain choreographers can take more sexual-type movements and put them in a ballet routine, but that can be done with any type (polka dancing, square dancing, riverdance, whatever) of dancing. It doesn't mean that the type of dancing, itself, is inherently sexual.

As for the outfits, Eevee is correct, most dance companies like to put little girls is flashy costumes that resemble the costumes that the "big girls" wear. Again, it's your responsibility as a parent to find out what your child would be wearing and decide if you can get on board with it. Different people have different limits. Some people think gymnastics leotards are inappropriate, some people think head to toe spandex with nothing showing but the hands and face is inappropriate, some people think skirts are inappropriate. It's all relative.

I guess my point is: if you wouldn't comfortable with your child doing this, that's fine, but find out what's actually going on before you say that it's wrong for everyone.