Thanks Obama

[victoriavengeance (1)]

ugh. it's based after canada's health care, and talk to anyone in canada and they'll tell you they have been fucked hardcore.

The healthcare plan will actually not benefit me at all, and it will make my life harder.

To keep up with the free healthcare, private healthcare will slowly begin to die out and become less quality, hoping to keep customers until everyone decides to just go with the free healthcare.

My chemotherapy without insurance is 3,000 a month.

With the health insurance that we pay for, it goes down to 50 a month.

With the free healthcare, it's definitely going to be WAY more than that by at LEAST triple.

And I won't be able to afford it probably. Cool, life.

So not only will I be paying for a program I probably won't even see in place for like 029358092385 years, I also will not be benefiting from it.

My family and myself, we work our ASSES off to afford our own REALLY HIGH QUALITY healthcare.

But I can't afford to wait SIX FUCKING MONTHS to get a doctor's appointment on national healthcare, which is what Canadians are experiencing, due to EVERYONE opting in to the healthcare.

I don't want to pay for two healthcares.

Neither will any other Americans, so they're all going to take the easy way out, go with the national healthcare which is low grade SHIT compared to stuff you actually pay for, and every other insurance company will go out of business.

supply and demand, smarties.

the government's making money off of you either way. you can't POSSIBLY think all of your tax money for the healthcare plan is going to HEALTHCARE.

You just Don't get it.

If Obamacare gets implemented, that will most likely put a lot of insurance companies OUT of business.

Which means Hundreds of Thousands of more JOBS LOST.

Which means our Economy will fall even Further into the CRAPPER !

That's okay, after that happens, I'll post a thread titled: "We told you so !"

thaank you.

SOURCES: -4th grade Social Studies/History/Economics. You should all take it. It's really simple logic.

-Business major.

Edited December 5, 2010 by victoriavengeance

[phee]

ugh. it's based after canada's health care, and talk to anyone in canada and they'll tell you they have been fucked hardcore.

The healthcare plan will actually not benefit me at all, and it will make my life harder.

To keep up with the free healthcare, private healthcare will slowly begin to die out and become less quality, hoping to keep customers until everyone decides to just go with the free healthcare.

My chemotherapy without insurance is 3,000 a month.

With the health insurance that we pay for, it goes down to 50 a month.

With the free healthcare, it's definitely going to be WAY more than that by at LEAST triple.

And I won't be able to afford it probably. Cool, life.

I have talked to several people in Canada and they seem to not mind it.... Tyger right here on DGN for one.

[victoriavengeance (1)]

I have loads of family members and friends that can't even get into a doctor for at least six months, and I know of several people with the same health problems that I have over there that are fucked because of it. Insurance companies that ARE left have their prices so jacked up to compete with the free health care [no one's buying, so they have to compensate. if everyone bought it, it'd be cheaper for them obviously. supply/demand again.] that it's unnaffordable to those that have huge health issues.

[Scar My Machine]

ugh. it's based after canada's health care, and talk to anyone in canada and they'll tell you they have been fucked hardcore.

I have Canadian friends and they laugh at our country for not having the type of health care they have and not only that but they can't understand how a country like ours doesn't have more than one type of health care.

What's so wrong with having coverage for those that can't afford it? Have you seen the video of hospital workers dumping people off at police stations to avoid taking care of them?

Is that what our country has become? If you don't make enough money your life is worthless? What if you became injured, lost your job and couldn't afford treatment. Would you be ok with a hospital orderly dumping you off when you were sick and un able to take care of yourself?

The anti "Obamacare" people it seems just think, it will never happen to them (or a loved one) and it is somehow the other persons fault for "NOT WORKING HARD ENOUGH".

What kind of logic is that?

How do you know how hard these people have worked? Do you know them? Do you really believe that somehow only the top 1% in this country are the only ones that have busted their asses off to make a life and that somehow the poor are just lazy leaches that need to be done away with?

I mean really............is that what you believe?

[victoriavengeance (1)]

No, but I believe that my health and myself are going to be screwed in the butt paying for something that I personally CANNOT utilize to retain my health, and then paying A SHIT TON for something that WILL benefit my health.

is that fair? That I have to pay and take care of my own health which is already poor and costs me a crap ton of money, and pay for someone else's health on top of paying MORE than I would have prior to the fact of the matter?

I could REALLY care more at this point about whether or not people are lazy or need help or lost their job and can't afford their health care.

that sucks, I'm sorry, but in this economic state, I CAN'T AFFORD TO PAY FOR YOUR HEALTH AND MY FOUR AUTO IMMUNE DISEASES.

Edited December 5, 2010 by victoriavengeance

[phee]

I have loads of family members and friends that can't even get into a doctor for at least six months, and I know of several people with the same health problems that I have over there that are fucked because of it. Insurance companies that ARE left have their prices so jacked up to compete with the free health care [no one's buying, so they have to compensate. if everyone bought it, it'd be cheaper for them obviously. supply/demand again.] that it's unnaffordable to those that have huge health issues.

You said talk to "anyone in Canada" and I have, I was not disagreeing that people had been wronged.... just that I had talked to people in Canada that haven't been wronged.

[victoriavengeance (1)]

Sorry, I digress- I forget that in type I am perceived as literal, you have to kind of imagine my nature in person (which you don't know, but it is complete sarcasm and hyperboles) in my text to get me XD.

[Scar My Machine]

is that fair? That I have to pay and take care of my own health which is already poor and costs me a crap ton of money, and pay for someone else's health on top of paying MORE than I would have prior to the fact of the matter?

Is it fair that I had to pay taxes that kept your school open so you could benefit from an education system that I no longer need?

Can I get my money back? I didn't care to pay taxes to get you an education. Why should I care if you got a free education?

Since that is the line of logic you are using. I want my money back. That way I can use it to get health care coverage from some corporation that will deny me treatment when I get sick.

[victoriavengeance (1)]

It's equivalent exchange (to quote Full Metal Alchemist, "Humankind cannot gain anything without first giving something

in return... To obtain something of equal value must be lost.")- you gained your education which someone else paid for through their taxes, and you paid for mine or whatever, and I'm going to be paying for someone's, and I'm paying for my own already for that. It's a completely different subject, and it's already put in place and it IS what it is, no changing that currently. This is something that is going to be instated that I do not agree with, but education is already set. Start a new topic on education reform if you wish. Irrelevant. Education and healthcare both run upon the taxes, yes, but my healthcare is not paid for by taxes. I pay my healthcare.

and I already pay taxes for medicare and the like, and it's just adding a new amount to take out of my check, on top of me taking out for my healthcare because the QUALITY of this national plan is going to be shit.

were the quality better of the healthcare being received for free, I would be content.

I would not be bitching.

but there are days that I CANNOT WAIT more than a week to get a doctor's appointment.

I get my blood drawn every friday and my liver is monitored from my medication. it could be fatal if I do not get the care I need. Urgent care is not going to work wonders every time it happens. I see specialists that cost a shit ton of money and I guarantee you will not be covered by this free healthcare.

No free healthcare plan is going to be able to keep my health in check.

So, I hope you really enjoy the healthcare I'm buying you! :D

Edited December 5, 2010 by victoriavengeance

[Epic_Fail_Guy]

Everyone seems to forget that the "Obamacare" isn't what it was origionally planned to be.

Who's responsible for altering the origional plan to the cluster fuck we have today? Well, as I followed along this, it seemed to be the republicans behind it's terrible mutation into what we have now.

Shocking, I know, especially since it was somehow the democrat's fault for everything going bad between 2000-2008 when the republicans had control of our government with an iron fist.

It's kind of like saying the dark ages were the fault of science and not religion.

[Jinx]

A) You have a pesky little way of not presenting any facts except sources you didn't bother to cite and the rhetoric of not being able to know unless you've spent time in other countries. So NOBODY in America can know about anything because we haven't gone over to another country to catch a tourist-style glimpse of what a small amount of that country's citizens (the people you come into contact with) think about a particular issue. REAL solid argument there, can't refute that logic . (Like I said, I hope your bridge is constructed a little more soundly)

B) I have checked out hard data. That's why I made a judgment, based on what citizens from many other countries with national healthcare, read extensive data on Britain's national healthcare and some on Canada's. That's the reason I used Britain in specific because I read about it in the past, from both an American perspective and British. There are some countries where it works somewhat, I will admit to that, but just because it works in some places in the world through cooperation of singular cultures (America is a huge melting pot of cultural notions, most other places are not) does not mean that it will work here or that our government officials have thought through it and planned as well as in those nations.

C) If knowing is half the battle, then I win twice.

D) I don't get my information from televised American news sources, I'm not that r-tarded. I haven't even had cable in five years. Feels wonderful to not be fed a bunch of shit by people who only want to shock you into buying Chevys, as my terrorism professor says.

So that bridge, how much we talkin' here?

OK sadly I feel you may have missed some important sources that may change your opinion on the matter if you spend some time looking them up. Quality of life and the health of your citizens can without question be measured. I stated a fact that we are lower than several industrialized nations and it is a fact make no mistake. Didn't think I needed to cite the source as most almost every logical person knows this to be true. More than happy to cite a few links to get you started.

Now to address your points.

A)I poorly worded the traveling abroad point as it is hard to articulate. I do believe it is an important one. You hear more often that America is #1 or what other countries do is inferior to us from people who have never left their own borders. Part of it comes from living in Ann Arbor which is already a global village as a kid. Yes it's true if you have not left this country you cannot say with any authority that what we have is superior. Again it's hard to put into words but it's a mindset. It's not that this country is the best. It's just the best for you. It's like saying I have the best MOM. Well no you have the best mother for you. It's about perspective and familiarity. What you have the best because it's all you've ever known.

B) Not sure what data you have looked at to form your opinion so I won't say much. I am basing mine on some the links below it's a good start. Check them out and I think it may help you. I am curious on what "Hard Data" you have looked at. I did get a chuckle when I saw your FTW to the bush tax cuts growing the economy. That erroneous and somewhat comical belief is NOT backed up by any measurable figures. Not even going to bother citing sources for your the claim our economy grew after the bush tax cuts. It is so absurd as not warranting a link. If you honestly believe that cite something from either the N.G.O. or C.B.O. to back it up.

One last point on the whole melting pot harder to work here. We already have socialized medicine in this country and it works amazing. It's called Medicare and ask anyone over 65 how good it is and how much worse their lives would be without it. Every baby born in the nation and every senior citizen already has the is wonderful service. Medicare for everyone is what we should have gotten. That is where Obamacare went astray.

I'll give you the bridge for free if you promise to put the funds into broadening your horizons with some travel instead. It's not about being a tourist it's about seeing things a bit differently. Sadly if the desire to see how things are outside what you know has not happened by this point in your life doubt it ever will. But I really hope it does. I mean that

http://apps.who.int/ghodata/?vid=720

http://www.who.int/w...0/en/index.html

http://www.who.int/h...s/en/index.html

https://www.cia.gov/...r/2091rank.html

http://www.newsweek....-countries.html

http://www.marketwat...reform/snapshot

http://healthpolicya...ejm.org/?p=2610

http://en.wikipedia...._mortality_rate

http://www.photius.c...ife_table2.html

http://en.wikipedia....y-of-Life_Index

Edited December 5, 2010 by Jinx

[Scar My Machine]

OK sadly I feel you may have missed some important sources that may change your opinion on the matter if you spend some time looking them up. Quality of life and the health of your citizens can without question be measured. I stated a fact that we are lower than several industrialized nations and it is a fact make no mistake. Didn't think I needed to cite the source as most almost every logical person knows this to be true. More than happy to cite a few links to get you started.

Now to address your points.

A)I poorly worded the traveling abroad point as it is hard to articulate. I do believe it is an important one. You hear more often that America is #1 or what other countries do is inferior to us from people who have never left their own borders. Part of it comes from living in Ann Arbor which is already a global village as a kid. Yes it's true if you have not left this country you cannot say with any authority that what we have is superior. Again it's hard to put into words but it's a mindset. It's not that this country is the best. It's just the best for you. It's like saying I have the best MOM. Well no you have the best mother for you. It's about perspective and familiarity. What you have the best because it's all you've ever known.

B) Not sure what data you have looked at to form your opinion so I won't say much. I am basing mine on some the links below it's a good start. Check them out and I think it may help you. I am curious on what "Hard Data" you have looked at. I did get a chuckle when I saw your FTW to the bush tax cuts growing the economy. That erroneous and somewhat comical belief is NOT backed up by any measurable figures. Not even going to bother citing sources for your the claim our economy grew after the bush tax cuts. It is so absurd as not warranting a link. If you honestly believe that cite something from either the N.G.O. or C.B.O. to back it up.

One last point on the whole melting pot harder to work here. We already have socialized medicine in this country and it works amazing. It's called Medicare and ask anyone over 65 how good it is and how much worse their lives would be without it. Every baby born in the nation and every senior citizen already has the is wonderful service. Medicare for everyone is what we should have gotten. That is where Obamacare went astray.

I'll give you the bridge for free if you promise to put the funds into broadening your horizons with some travel instead. It's not about being a tourist it's about seeing things a bit differently. Sadly if the desire to see how things are outside what you know has not happened by this point in your life doubt it ever will. But I really hope it does. I mean that

Good post Jinx.

[Saint Germain]

What percentage rate is healthcare?

[Scar My Machine]

Your health care is denied.

You anti national health care people can laugh at the source of this video. You can avoid the truth but the truth isn't going away.

This woman denied health care coverage resulting in the deaths of people that FRICKIN PAID FOR HEALTH CARE................AND WERE DENIED.

Why?

(If you had trouble hearing her speak she said, she was told to deny coverage for the better of the companies bottom line)................PROFIT.

If that is the system you want to keep then not only are you misguided but you are un American.

I'll gladly wait for a conservative rebuttal.

[victoriavengeance (1)]

either way I won't be getting the healthcare I need, so your point is still totally invalid and irrelevant to me.

[Scar My Machine]

either way I won't be getting the healthcare I need, so your point is still totally invalid and irrelevant to me.

Sadly you are missing the point. Sorry I couldn't make it clearer.

[victoriavengeance (1)]

Not really. I got your point, my smartassery is getting in the way. I'm just saying, realistically thinking here, and thinking for myself, then I'd be preeetty much in the same scenario.

In the time it takes to get an appointment scheduled for a crappy ass non-specialist doctor that is accepted by my 'free' healthcare [note it's called free, not good], my liver will probably splode all over the place and be super gross and someone'll have to clean that up and I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

Reiterating what I previously stated, were the plan consisting of better quality healthcare, then I would be moreso in support of it.

[Scar My Machine]

I provided proof that even people that have paid for health insurance have been denied treatment so how can conservatives continue to say the system is fine?

Continue to allow free market health insurance to flourish? The free market? Doesn't exist.

It's a monopoly controlled by the wealthy drug and insurance industry. They control the market. They fear competition. They fear losing stock market shares/profit margins.

They fear Americans knowing the truth.

[phee]

By the arguments made in this thread by the more conservative folks.... I would suggest that if your name is not appearing in Red (in other words you have not made a donation to DGN) Or you are not at least a member of the street team.... You have no right to post on DGN, because those of us who have donated + (and mainly) Troy, are the ones who pay to have the board on the internet, and we don't want you to be hypocritical of your points on healthcare by us donation making, and contributing folk giving you DGN bandwidth hand-outs that you have not earned.

[DJ Nocker]

By the arguments made in this thread by the more conservative folks.... I would suggest that if your name is not appearing in Red (in other words you have not made a donation to DGN) Or you are not at least a member of the street team.... You have no right to post on DGN, because those of us who have donated + (and mainly) Troy, are the ones who pay to have the board on the internet, and we don't want you to be hypocritical of your points on healthcare by us donation making, and contributing folk giving you DGN bandwidth hand-outs that you have not earned.

I have donated, although for SOME reason, it has never been put on my account. I gave troy money at CC when I was promoting Deadline. Although he might have been drunk and forgot... oh well.

Back on topic.

Obama sucks, my health care is more expensive, thanks.

[phee]

I have donated, although for SOME reason, it has never been put on my account. I gave troy money at CC when I was promoting Deadline. Although he might have been drunk and forgot... oh well.

Back on topic.

Obama sucks, my health care is more expensive, thanks.

Who is your healthcare provider?

[Scar My Machine]

Back on topic.

Obama sucks, my health care is more expensive, thanks.

He makes a strong point here. I especially like the part where he elaborated on the finer details of his argument.

[phee]

The Republicans suck, because gas is going up in price again..... It all seems so clear now.

[victoriavengeance (1)]

lol@free speech and free opinion.

[phee]

lol@free speech and free opinion.

I think you see my point.... (I would not advocate actually not allowing non contributers to not post.... but my point being that if a person who is against the type of healthcare being expressed would want to still be allowed to post, they would have to admit that other people are paying for services that they are using for free)