Michigan is screwed?

[Reaper]

Yep, can only see needing unions to do more on their part as we all have been taking hits. Been seeing the double standard in WI all over the news about them stopping the politicians from going inside to vote and practice democracy, while all the time unions are saying they are practicing it by stopping it. And getting violent and breaking into the place via windows to get inside? Wtf kind of bs is that? And certainly I don't agree with the last in, first out with the teachers unions. Let the ones that do well stay in through the merit badge.

[Scar My Machine]

What were those insults thrown at me from some for condemning Snyder?

Hmmmmmm, Republicans want smaller government?

I'm listening.

[Enishi]

Speaking of fiscal conservationism, I think many other negative associations get thrown into the mix which aren't inherently related. Balancing the budget does NOT have to equal throwing poor people into the streets.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bloomberg#Social_issues

As an example:

Economic issues

Michael Bloomberg characterizes himself as a fiscal conservative for turning the city's $6-billion deficit into a $3-billion surplus; however, conservative PAC Club for Growth has criticized him because he increased property taxes and spending while doing so.

Being a fiscal conservative is not about slashing programs that help the poor, or improve health care, or ensure a social safety net. It's about insisting services are provided efficiently, get to only the people that need them, and achieve the desired results. Fiscal conservatives have hearts too — but we also insist on using our brains, and that means demanding results and holding government accountable for producing them.

To me, fiscal conservatism means balancing budgets — not running deficits that the next generation can't afford. It means improving the efficiency of delivering services by finding innovative ways to do more with less. It means cutting taxes when possible and prudent to do so, raising them overall only when necessary to balance the budget, and only in combination with spending cuts. It means when you run a surplus, you save it; you don't squander it. And most importantly, being a fiscal conservative means preparing for the inevitable economic downturns — and by all indications, we've got one coming.

—Michael Bloomberg, speech to UK Conservative Party, September 30, 2007[73]

Bloomberg has expressed a distaste of taxes, stating, "Taxes are not good things, but if you want services, somebody's got to pay for them, so they're a necessary evil."[88] As mayor, he did raise property taxes to fund budget projects; however, in January 2007 he proposed cuts in property taxes by 5% and cuts in sales taxes, including the elimination of taxes on clothing and footwear. Bloomberg pointed to the Wall Street profits and the real estate market as evidence that the city's economy is booming and could handle a tax break.[89]

His self-described fiscal conservatism also led him to eliminate the existing $6-billion deficit when he assumed office. He balanced the budget of New York City by raising property taxes and making cuts to city agencies, excluding the police and fire departments.[90]

Bloomberg is in favor of providing tax breaks to big corporations for the good of the whole community. As mayor, Bloomberg lobbied the CEO of Goldman Sachs to establish its headquarters across from Ground Zero by promising $1.65 billion in tax breaks. Regarding this deal, Bloomberg stated, "This [New York City] is where the best want to live and work. So I told him [CEO of Goldman Sachs], 'We can help with minimizing taxes. Minimizing your rent. Improving security. But in the end, this is about people.'"[91]

He has had a less cordial relationship with unions as mayor. In 2002, when New York City's transit workers threatened to strike, Bloomberg responded by riding a mountain bike through the city to show how the city could deal with the transit strike by finding alternate means of transportation and not pandering to the unions.[92] Three years later, a clash between Bloomberg and the New York City Transit Authority over wages and union benefits led to a full blown strike that lasted three days. Negotiations led to the end of the strike in December 2005, but controversy exists over Bloomberg's mishandling of the situation.[citation needed]

Bloomberg is a staunch advocate of free trade and is strongly opposed to protectionism, stating, "The things that we have to worry about is this protectionist movement that has reared its head again in this country...." He worries about the growth of China and fears the lessening gap between the United States and other countries: "The rest of the world is catching up, and, there are people that say, surpassing us. I hope they are wrong. I hope those who think we are still in good shape are right. But nevertheless, the time to address these issues is right now."[93]

Bloomberg has placed a strong emphasis on public health and welfare, adopting many liberal policies. As the mayor he made HIV, diabetes, and hypertension all top priorities. He extended the city's smoking ban to all commercial establishments and implemented a trans fat ban in restaurants.[94] Mayor Bloomberg has been a strong supporter of the New York City Health and Hospitals Corporation – the largest urban healthcare agency in the United States – serving over 1.3 million New Yorkers, and has touted its use of information technology and Electronic Health Records to increase efficiency and enhance patient care.[95] He launched a program called Opportunity NYC which is the nation's first-ever conditional cash transfer pilot program designed to help New Yorkers break the cycle of poverty in the city. He instituted a $7.5 billion municipal affordable housing plan, the largest in the nation, that is supposed to provide 500,000 New Yorkers with housing.[96]

Bloomberg has expressed concern about poverty and growing class divisions stating, "This society cannot go forward, the way we have been going forward, where the gap between the rich and the poor keeps growing

Edited March 13, 2011 by Enishi

[Scar My Machine]

Sounds like it..... King Snyder?

I can't believe this stuff.

Emperor Snyder is more like it.

RECALL Snyder now!

[torn asunder]

Emperor Snyder is more like it.

RECALL Snyder now!

want granholm back? people fucking amaze me... (not you specifically.)

[Scar My Machine]

want granholm back? people fucking amaze me... (not you specifically.)

Nope, do not wish her to come back. I do not think for a moment that she helped our state.

I also do not see Snyder doing any good here.

[Vater Araignee]

want granholm back? people fucking amaze me... (not you specifically.)

STOP! I have a pulled groin muscle and every time I laugh it makes my nads hurt.

Everyone hates the Democrats when they are being puppeted and the same holds true for the Republicans.

Nobody seems to want to admit that a puppeteer has two hands.

[darknight1]

Small wonder I left Michigan. You don't see the stupid stunts here in Colorado that Snyder in Michigan is trying to pull off, much less the same in Wisconsin. Bill Ritter, the former governor out here, and John Hickenlooper seem to be doing fine in fixing this state's economic problems.

[candyman]

Hey leave Wisconsin out of this...its the ASSHOLE of Wisconsin that is bitching...and the would be the capital city called Madison. Everyone knows that there is Madison, and then there is the rest of the state. They think they are the new San-Fran and we don't have our heads up our asses. THEY are protesting...nobody else is...if anyone would even CARE to look at what the actual people VOTED for they would see what is really up.

Sorry but Wisconsin is misrepresented in this whole thing...for statistics we vote NO to the statewide smoking ban TWICE, we voted and polled to end the higher taxes for Harley and the other manufacturers, we voted this governor in and his ratings are still up, and we did show alot of support for the bill that was just signed. "But why are we hearing different?" Because those damn cameras never leave that capital...and people that are stupid enough to think that a 70% vote of NO for something really means that those people meant yes then why do you think they are going to be honest on this one?

And these "underpaid" government workers can shut the hell up too...I work for the federal government and don't get paid NEARLY that well...I have seen WAY too many teachers rolling up to the schools in fully loaded Mercedes and BMW's which tells me they are getting paid just fine.

[phee]

Giving breaks to those who don't need it... and punishing those who can least afford it.... like the poor, the teachers, the kids..... Logic Fail.

[Lillylu29]

2) re: taxing poor/old people, then giving businesses tax breaks. wtf is wrong with you people? everyone and their brother are bitching about unemployment rates. tax incentives for businesses should mean more jobs for michigan workers. how the hell is that bad?

there's a reason it's called 'shared sacrifice' - everyone chips in on an individual basis. businesses need to be incentivized (is that a word?) in order to get our people back to work, so you don't want to take money from them. this all seems so logical to me, i don't know why everyone is getting so freaking upset.

"yeah, cut the budget everywhere! but not *this* particular thing, or *this* particular group, or, or, or..."

Because I believe that the poor spend the most money in the economy as a whole and if you tax us then all thats gonna do is stop me from spending and while corperations are getting tax breaks to hire more people is just gonna lay them off again because well im not spending my money cause I no longer have any cause Im being taxed to death...... I have enough to pay for with higher gas rates which is raising the cost of everything else. Believe me there is 'shared sacrifice' on the poor/old peoples part

And I just wanna say it sickeneds me to see all this happen while our precious fucking football legue fight over how 9 billion dollars is gonna be divided up and spent between them all... FUCK YOU FOOTBALL.... I wont be watching you this year.....

[Scar My Machine]

Small wonder I left Michigan. You don't see the stupid stunts here in Colorado that Snyder in Michigan is trying to pull off, much less the same in Wisconsin. Bill Ritter, the former governor out here, and John Hickenlooper seem to be doing fine in fixing this state's economic problems.

Can Michigan borrow one or both of those two so we can actually fix our budget problems?

Giving breaks to those who don't need it... and punishing those who can least afford it.... like the poor, the teachers, the kids..... Logic Fail.

Agree.

Because I believe that the poor spend the most money in the economy as a whole and if you tax us then all thats gonna do is stop me from spending and while corperations are getting tax breaks to hire more people is just gonna lay them off again because well im not spending my money cause I no longer have any cause Im being taxed to death...... I have enough to pay for with higher gas rates which is raising the cost of everything else. Believe me there is 'shared sacrifice' on the poor/old peoples part

Again, agree. It's the point I tried to get across to some conservatives but they still refuse to listen.

If the Republiscum's keep putting more burden on the average person in order to give tax cuts to the wealthy we will continue to spend less, and less and less. And those wealthy CEO's will see their profit margin shrink, and shrink and shrink.

Why? BECAUSE PEOPLE IN MICHIGAN ARE GETTING TAXED TO DEATH AND ARE LOSING WADGES!!!!

How many times do we need to explain that?

And the solution I offered has been ignored by the conservative supporters --- which is, (to start with) cut the Governor's salary (and perks) - cut lawmakers salary down to those the average teacher salary (which is roughly 38,000) -- I mean, if they say teachers (unions) are getting paid too much then what the fuck are they getting paid? (IMO) lawmakers get paid WAY TOO MUCH. They are also full time (they should be part time workers) and according to them, the state is broke.

Hello, kettle - are you still black?

I mean, why is it that conservatives (from what I see) seem to be against cutting salaries of those in Lansing? Or am I wrong? (though, I see some here continually ignore the salary cut proposal except, to cut salary of the union workers).

It's not the union workers destroying our economy, it's the over paid state legislature/lawmakers that get a fully paid retirement pension, with for life free health care (courtesy of me, you and everyone) after only working for what? Six years in Lansing?

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!?????????????

But let's let them keep taking us to the cleaners on their benefits and salary all the while telling us how unions are killing our state.

[Msterbeau]

While you are all focused on the union/tax portion of this, you're ignoring the scarier part - the part where the governor and his minions can, for all intents and purposes, take over local governments and implement their own policies in those municipalities. Hello fascism.

[phee]

While you are all focused on the union/tax portion of this, you're ignoring the scarier part - the part where the governor and his minions can, for all intents and purposes, take over local governments and implement their own policies in those municipalities. Hello fascism.

*blink blink* But Marc..... The Republicans and Conservatives are for smaller government and control at a more localized level! You must be mistaken because that would mean that the Republicans and Conservatives are being hypocrites and actually want more centralized powers because they can simply override elected officials whenever they want! Shame on you for confusing the two!!! *takes off sarcasm hat*

[Reaper]

While you are all focused on the union/tax portion of this, you're ignoring the scarier part - the part where the governor and his minions can, for all intents and purposes, take over local governments and implement their own policies in those municipalities. Hello fascism.

How many people have taken office in Detroit and abused it? A LOT. If they can't get it done themselves without abusing the taxpayer, then why not? Let it happen I say. If it turns out to be shit, then shit on him and get the next person to fix it. Tired of all the "what ifs." Lets see what they do and then blast them if its wrong. But lets do something and not keep wondering what would happen. So far, not any of these politicians can get it done because they are always being stopped in one direction or the other. Politics suck and so do the people that call themselves politicians.

[Vater Araignee]

...Lets see what they do and then blast them if its wrong. ...

Careful, that will get you branded as a domestic terrorist.

[Reaper]

Careful, that will get you branded as a domestic terrorist.

Then let me clarify for them. I mean let the people run him out of office at that time.

[Msterbeau]

How many people have taken office in Detroit and abused it? A LOT. If they can't get it done themselves without abusing the taxpayer, then why not? Let it happen I say. If it turns out to be shit, then shit on him and get the next person to fix it. Tired of all the "what ifs." Lets see what they do and then blast them if its wrong. But lets do something and not keep wondering what would happen. So far, not any of these politicians can get it done because they are always being stopped in one direction or the other. Politics suck and so do the people that call themselves politicians.

And this is how people give away their authority to governments. Once we let them do this, it will be difficult to undo. And you have no one to blame but yourself for being complacent and letting it happen. There is no "what if" here. They will abuse this. They are not putting it in place to not use it.

[Scar My Machine]

While you are all focused on the union/tax portion of this, you're ignoring the scarier part - the part where the governor and his minions can, for all intents and purposes, take over local governments and implement their own policies in those municipalities. Hello fascism.

I posted the following in another thread.....

The Teabag-enabled plan in Michigan: Use the budget to starve cities and towns, then put in an "emergency town manager" who could (1) kill any contract the town entered into AND (2) dismiss elected officials AND (3) "disincorporate" the town itself. Oh, and the emergency manager can be a corporation. (Imagine the bribing for that contract!)

In other words, this wave of "Teabag" governors (really Movement Conservatives with a Teabag cover story) is enacting before our eyes the entire Conservative cadre-revolution agenda.

Cadre revolution — Take control of an organization at the top. Destroy it from the inside by putting your people in key positions. Then either loot it mafia-style, or remake it for an entirely different purpose. Lenin's cadre of Bolsheviks did not topple the Czar; they toppled the Mensheviks, who toppled the Czar. The Bolsheviks were part of the Menshevik coalition.

This is the Movement Conservative project. It's about the revolutionary take-over of, well, the country. It's been operating since the Lewis Powell memorandum and similar documents (see David Brock's The Republican Noise Machine for all the goods).

You could even argue that that movement's been hijacked, by the plutocrats, the very very rich. Control has certainly been centralized into a few hands — hedge fund managers; CEOs as a class; and maybe a dozen billionaires, maybe less. The Billionaires' Coup, as Frank Rich so aptly calls it.

And now Movement's goals are out in the open. Hybris might sink them yet. Thanks to Maddow and Naomi Klein for this clear presentation.

[candyman]

Giving breaks to those who don't need it... and punishing those who can least afford it.... like the poor, the teachers, the kids..... Logic Fail.

I don't know about Michigan...but in Wisconsin the teachers can afford it. They get issued cell phones and in some areas they "qualify" for a government vehicle. Looking at the parking lots I don't see people that are hurting for cash. They got pay adjustments a few years ago that were in the same bill that said those dudes that hold the "stop/slow" signs for the construction crews should be making $35 and hour...someone from my grade school class is doing that and he is pretty well off. I also know someone from another school that was on my little league team who is a teacher for the state...he drives a new Charger and saves the loaded Denali for when he comes to the bar...yeah poor teachers.

As far as the poor people back home go...they tend to be at the bar more than I do and they seem to be dressed fairly well in those nice new white kicks so I don't know what to say there.

Kids, otherwise known as children, have surpassed Hitler in being used in arguments. It seems that every bill is for the children...like no smoking in bars where children should not be in the first place...so once again I don't know what to really say about taxing them. I already gave them smoke free bars to attend and I was told that the many increases on the cigarette tax was for them so I can only hope they are doing well.

[phee]

http://annarbor.com/news/u-m-students-protest-choice-of-gov-rick-snyder-as-spring-commencement-speaker/?cmpid=NL_33_block_headline

[candyman]

Oh...COLLEGE kids...if you can't protest it smoke it.

[phee]

Oh...COLLEGE kids...if you can't protest it smoke it.

Heh.... I graduated from college and have never even smoked a cig.

[candyman]

Heh.... I graduated from college and have never even smoked a cig.

Never smoked a cigarette...leave anything out there?

[phee]

Never smoked a cigarette...leave anything out there?

Nope.... I have never smoked anything.... cig included... nor shot up.... had special brownies.... snorted... etc....