March 20th, whos going to Quantico?

[Vater Araignee]

If you don't know why you should then research Bradley Manning.

I suggest a Google search, but you can always go directly to BradleyManning.org.

I want to but and I hope I will but have to come up with gas housing and food for 4.

[candyman]

Personally I would beat his ass if I were a guard...it's people like him that are ruining the face of the military. No it is NOT just because he turned over the documents either. He did something that goes against the oath you must take to enter...he tossed the honor right out of the window. Unquestioning service does not make you a damn robot but apparently this guy was...and the program that takes care of computing the results of his actions was blown the hell out. We have become too soft on those that commit crimes...I don't want him dead but I would drive him up the wall with pain for being such a dumbass! How the fuck did he ever make it through Basic Training?!?!

[TitsMcGee]

Personally I would beat his ass if I were a guard...it's people like him that are ruining the face of the military. No it is NOT just because he turned over the documents either. He did something that goes against the oath you must take to enter...he tossed the honor right out of the window. Unquestioning service does not make you a damn robot but apparently this guy was...and the program that takes care of computing the results of his actions was blown the hell out. We have become too soft on those that commit crimes...I don't want him dead but I would drive him up the wall with pain for being such a dumbass! How the fuck did he ever make it through Basic Training?!?!

I'd help.

[Destroit]

I'd help.

I'll take photos :. This guy is a jackass that endangers the safety and liberty of our country just for a cheap rise. I would never support someone like that.

I'll take photos :. This guy is a jackass that endangers the safety and liberty of our country just for a cheap rise. I would never support someone like that.

[candyman]

I wouldn't leave him naked though...I would make him wear the "Tuggie", throw a horny Gorilla into the room, and put on some AC/DC...probably Money Talks...

None of this would be video taped of course...I would just use the soundtrack to play to those children that they bring to prison to scare them straight and tell them "Remember to pull you head out of your ass before you act otherwise someone ELSE will put THEIR head up you ass!"

[Vater Araignee]

First, I suggest you take another look at the Oath of Enlistment and understand why it is ordered they way it is.

Second, read the Geneva Convention.

Third, understand International Human Rights law.

Fourth understand we are suppose to be better than what we are fighting against.

And last but most important, remember "The most American action you can take is to be CRITICAL of the government."

The only way this man effected national security is by show an atrocity committed by American, supposedly the very thing that got us into this mess in the first place.

He didn't release the footage live, so he didn't endanger those solders. Unlike the conservative darling Geraldo Rivera.

He didn't release a technological type of footage that hasn't been seen hundreds if not thousands of times on our own airwaves, handed over to the media by our government for your viewing pleasure, so he didn't compromise "secret tech".

What this man did was the equivalent of when my buddy reported Metaldyne to OSHA for a policy of safety violation to save money or when I ratted out my union local to the main for cooking the books.

Without whistle blowers, those in charge degenerate, and the more they get away with it the more they degenerate. I site the executive branch and congress as prime examples.

I'll go on record right here by saying I use to be one of the biggest defenders of "Soft Torture" and "Any Means Necessary Military Tactics" DGN had, I condone neither now.

[TitsMcGee]

First, I suggest you take another look at the Oath of Enlistment and understand why it is ordered they way it is.

Second, read the Geneva Convention.

Third, understand International Human Rights law.

Fourth understand we are suppose to be better than what we are fighting against.

And last but most important, remember "The most American action you can take is to be CRITICAL of the government."

The only way this man effected national security is by show an atrocity committed by American, supposedly the very thing that got us into this mess in the first place.

He didn't release the footage live, so he didn't endanger those solders. Unlike the conservative darling Geraldo Rivera.

He didn't release a technological type of footage that hasn't been seen hundreds if not thousands of times on our own airwaves, handed over to the media by our government for your viewing pleasure, so he didn't compromise "secret tech".

What this man did was the equivalent of when my buddy reported Metaldyne to OSHA for a policy of safety violation to save money or when I ratted out my union local to the main for cooking the books.

Without whistle blowers, those in charge degenerate, and the more they get away with it the more they degenerate. I site the executive branch and congress as prime examples.

I'll go on record right here by saying I use to be one of the biggest defenders of "Soft Torture" and "Any Means Necessary Military Tactics" DGN had, I condone neither now.

And I want to beat his ass too frankly

[Nightgaunt]

Rock on, Brad.

That is all.

[candyman]

It't the military and while those rules do exist we have our own. We have ways of dealing with things like this without creating this mess. He could have gone through protected channels to...actually scratch that last one...

This was de-classified information which to a civilian means for anyone to read...wrong. How the hell a PFC got a hold of the information I have no idea but considering that some if it was also still classified tells me that something illegal happened...which is even more of a reason to keep him in the slammer. We have different rules in UCMJ than the civilians to...in your world a certain crime would be just a warning while in my world they would take your pay, bust you down as low as possible, and would put you in a whole world of hurt which would include but would not be limited to extra duty...burning the shit is no longer as common but it can be arranged.

He signed his life away...it's not really a joke he really did...so he truly is in the hands of the United States government which he fucked over...I'm not condoning or bashing his motives...and in releasing those files he pissed them off which was a really bad move.

Obama agrees...he also agrees that G-Bay (as I like to call the terrorist prison) should stay open, and that not only will the Afghanistan and Iraq was continue but we may even expand into the many other countries that are blowing up (and that publicly asked for our help...yep...the turned to "the great satan" and said "HELP!" even though we know once we help the UN and the host country will deny everything, won't pay us back, and will blame us for something that started before we were there)...

Sorry for the rant there but yeah...long story short he begged to play in the big boys playground and as soon as he committed a foul he wanted to go back inside and not face the music...NOT how it works...if it were a few years ago his feet would be swinging and he would have a wonderful rope hickey...

[TitsMcGee]

Last time someone gave away classified information, it was the Rosenberg's and they were executed for it..

[Slogo]

Last time someone gave away classified information, it was the Rosenberg's and they were executed for it..

But they gave nuclear information to the Soviet Union.

This guy told us that

a) China is getting annoyed with N. Korea

b) The Afghani government is corrupt

c) Putin is really running Russia

d) We think some other people are douches

SHOCKING revelations

[TitsMcGee]

But they gave nuclear information to the Soviet Union.

This guy told us that

a) China is getting annoyed with N. Korea

b) The Afghani government is corrupt

c) Putin is really running Russia

d) We think some other people are douches

SHOCKING revelations

Still it was classified information even though it really wasn't shocking news.

[candyman]

But they gave nuclear information to the Soviet Union.

This guy told us that

a) China is getting annoyed with N. Korea

b) The Afghani government is corrupt

c) Putin is really running Russia

d) We think some other people are douches

SHOCKING revelations

It is not about the kind of information given away. The Army is prosecuting based on his actions...which were illegal and in the Army today information is golden and anyone that messes up with it is in for some serious shit. He is also under the thumb of the government...which DOES care about the type of information.

He could have released a document that said poop stinks and the sky is blue but if those documents were de-classified, classified, or top-secret and he wasn't supposed to have access to them as a PFC then he would still go to prison...military prison...were you don't get all the wonders of a "normal" prison...

[Vater Araignee]

It is not about the kind of information given away. The Army is prosecuting based on his actions...which were illegal and in the Army today information is golden and anyone that messes up with it is in for some serious shit. He is also under the thumb of the government...which DOES care about the type of information.

He could have released a document that said poop stinks and the sky is blue but if those documents were de-classified, classified, or top-secret and he wasn't supposed to have access to them as a PFC then he would still go to prison...military prison...were you don't get all the wonders of a "normal" prison...

Translation: The U.S. government has the right to ignore the Statute of the International Criminal Court Explanatory Memorandum (International Human Rights law), the Geneva Convention, and prosecute anyone who exposes them for doing so.

Dude the Oath of enlistment has ordered things according to importance.

It say that first you will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and you hold your faith and allegiance to it. Then you go on to obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over you. The reason it is worded like that is because if the President and or officers appointed over you go contrary to the Constitution of the United States, they become the enemy of the Constitution of the United States and as such you are sworn to protect it against them.

Now violating International Human Rights law and the Geneva Convention don't exactly amount to violating the the Constitution, but claiming sovereignty for the force that is tasked with the job of protecting the Constitution is in fact unConstitutional. When you join the armed forces you do not give up your citizenship so at worse Manning should be charged with illegal search and seizure, but he wasn't turning over evidence to be used in prosecution so there actually isn't a 4A violation.

Notice the idea of prosecuting the individuals involved in the "Collateral Murder" video has not been posed by the government?

That is because of a perceived Fourth Amendment violation that doesn't actuality exists according to Herring v. United States.

If this man is allowed to be convicted, then the temperature just went up a degree on the frogs pot.

My personal opinion is that he should not be charged at all because we mad provisions that protect whistle blowers.

Now I also personally hate coming to realization that Manning is in the right. Why? Because it makes me sound like a fucking hippy.

SIDE NOTE: did you know that this subject, regardless of what side any of us are on, if found, gives us a check mark towards terrorist classification for "debating controversial issues"?

[TitsMcGee]

Translation: The U.S. government has the right to ignore the Statute of the International Criminal Court Explanatory Memorandum (International Human Rights law), the Geneva Convention, and prosecute anyone who exposes them for doing so.

Dude the Oath of enlistment has ordered things according to importance.

It say that first you will support and defend the Constitution of the United States and you hold your faith and allegiance to it. Then you go on to obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over you. The reason it is worded like that is because if the President and or officers appointed over you go contrary to the Constitution of the United States, they become the enemy of the Constitution of the United States and as such you are sworn to protect it against them.

Now violating International Human Rights law and the Geneva Convention don't exactly amount to violating the the Constitution, but claiming sovereignty for the force that is tasked with the job of protecting the Constitution is in fact unConstitutional. When you join the armed forces you do not give up your citizenship so at worse Manning should be charged with illegal search and seizure, but he wasn't turning over evidence to be used in prosecution so there actually isn't a 4A violation.

Notice the idea of prosecuting the individuals involved in the "Collateral Murder" video has not been posed by the government?

That is because of a perceived Fourth Amendment violation that doesn't actuality exists according to Herring v. United States.

If this man is allowed to be convicted, then the temperature just went up a degree on the frogs pot.

My personal opinion is that he should not be charged at all because we mad provisions that protect whistle blowers.

Now I also personally hate coming to realization that Manning is in the right. Why? Because it makes me sound like a fucking hippy.

SIDE NOTE: did you know that this subject, regardless of what side any of us are on, if found, gives us a check mark towards terrorist classification for "debating controversial issues"?

Yeah we have those provisions for CIVILIANS, not for the military. When you sign that dotted line, you sign all your rights away.

Edited March 15, 2011 by TitsMcGee

[Vater Araignee]

Yeah we have those provisions for CIVILIANS, not for the military. When you sign that dotted line, you sign all your rights away.

We made those provisions for American Citizens. You don't sign away your citizenship when you join the armed forces PERIOD END OF QUOTE.

[candyman]

There is a Whistle Blowers program in the military run by JAG. However, it has its own set of rules ACCORDING to UCMJ and other military and DOD regulations. AND...you have to go through the right channels otherwise your cause, no matter how noble, is going to land your ass in a sling.

No you don't sign away your citizenship...but you are no longer a civilian which means you fall under different rules. Legal battles can be complete HELL considering location and all that crap. We have some changes that make things easier and slightly cheaper for us...and we have others that make hand-slapping crimes in the civilian world prison time in the military world.

I can get someone from JAG in on this so they can explain...but when it comes to prosecution and such we live in a whole different universe than you do...especially when it comes to information crimes.

MAYBE he had good intentions...MAYBE the information should be known...BUT since he was not authorized to release it and committed a huge crime in obtaining AND releasing it he did it wrong. Sticking by your personal morals does not excuse you from UCMJ. Even a minor information leak on accident by me could get me in serious trouble...that it why I think before I act. He didn't...now he pays...maybe you could just label his as a martyr because that is probably the best option right now...