vanishing Detroit

[candyman]

You guys also seem to forget YOU are the union demands for more pay raises and better pensions come from YOUR co workers and you. You also have the right to VOTE on YOUR union contract. If you didnt vote then you are also at fault. Its not just the people in the union offices making this stuff up. Your co-workers and yourself have the rights to step in and say hey we dont need pay raises and bigger pensions this time, at the cost of losing peoples jobs.... lets take a slight paycut or keep things the same..... But I dont hear anyone saying they stood up and said that? You complain about the unions but what you fail to relize is YOU are the union :/

That is why I stay the hell out of Unions. I get a job where they base your pay, bonuses, and advancements on your job performance. I get jobs where they hire truly skilled workers NOT because a Union bullied them into hiring me but because they looked at my resume, called my references, and studied me during my first few temp days. If all companies did that then they would have great work forces without the hassle and the Union bullshit...proof that Unions need to be killed off.

I hate Unions more than I hate corporations because if you REALLY look at what drives these situation it is the Union BEHIND the Corporation. The Unions starts the fire, the Corporation freaks out...and then EVERYONE suffers. I am even talking about the teachers Unions and the same for cops and firefighters...they are not needed in todays world because of how we can check credentials not AND the only time they have any sort of visible impact is when they have a NEGATIVE impact on US...because it isn't those workers suffering it is the people the serve and provide for...

[Lillylu29]

That is why I stay the hell out of Unions. I get a job where they base your pay, bonuses, and advancements on your job performance. I get jobs where they hire truly skilled workers NOT because a Union bullied them into hiring me but because they looked at my resume, called my references, and studied me during my first few temp days. If all companies did that then they would have great work forces without the hassle and the Union bullshit...proof that Unions need to be killed off.

I hate Unions more than I hate corporations because if you REALLY look at what drives these situation it is the Union BEHIND the Corporation. The Unions starts the fire, the Corporation freaks out...and then EVERYONE suffers. I am even talking about the teachers Unions and the same for cops and firefighters...they are not needed in todays world because of how we can check credentials not AND the only time they have any sort of visible impact is when they have a NEGATIVE impact on US...because it isn't those workers suffering it is the people the serve and provide for...

Wow really, cause if im not mistaken the teachers, firefighters and police are fighting to keep there unions.... matter of fact isnt it one of the reasons why Allen park wasent allowed to lay off there Entire Fire dept? You keep thinking its the unions whom start shit and the corperations whom just panic and when said coperation is firing you because you hit pay cap and well its cheaper to hire fred a new guy then it is to keep you, or they think your just to old, or your manager decides he no longer likes you because you wear blue shoes, or you sneeze funny dont go crying because you all made michigan a right to work state. corperations can and will fire you for what ever they want and well you now will never have a leg to stand on...... okies ill go with that.....

and btw it wont matter how skilled you are or how well you do your job.... fred can be the stupidest motha fer in the world he'll get your job. just because they said so

Edited March 31, 2011 by Lillylu29

[Vater Araignee]

Wow really, cause if im not mistaken the teachers, firefighters and police are fighting to keep there unions.... matter of fact isnt it one of the reasons why Allen park wasent allowed to lay off there Entire Fire dept? You keep thinking its the unions whom start shit and the corperations whom just panic and when said coperation is firing you because you hit pay cap and well its cheaper to hire fred a new guy then it is to keep you, or they think your just to old, or your manager decides he no longer likes you because you wear blue shoes, or you sneeze funny dont go crying because you all made michigan a right to work state. corperations can and will fire you for what ever they want and well you now will never have a leg to stand on...... okies ill go with that.....

and btw it wont matter how skilled you are or how well you do your job.... fred can be the stupidest motha fer in the world he'll get your job. just because they said so

Honestly? You can speak for every teachers, firefighters and LEO?

Unions are getting busted democratically all the time now. It is the same problem our government has been having since Clinton, the Zombies are reverting to human and starting to push back.

Fighting back with a vote is a long, slow, hard process but it does and is happening.

All it takes is education the people who don't have their fingers in their ears yelling "LALALALALA I CANT HEAR YOU!" Like you are doing.

Open up your eyes and look at the big picture, not the little snapshot the unions use for mind control. If an union represents more than a few thousand then it has no choice but to end up becoming complicated and corrupt if just one member is and has drive, unless the other members stay vigilant.

Unions as they exists should be destroyed, there are better models that allow for people being told if they are fighting for rights or greed. People also should not be required to join them to get a job.

BTW the stupidest fucktard in the factory got my job because the union said so, and he had less seniority than me too. The contracts stated that as long as a 316L RPV Certified welder is on a shift he/she has to be used on the government contracts. Once gone, it is a simple matter to never use another, just switch the welder every 5.5 months and accept less per part.

If the union hadn't been around then I would have been in the factory until it closed it's doors because the company made more money from me being certified. Trust me, if you have government contracts that involve welding, you want someone who maintains a reactor pressure vessel cert.

Thanks to the union, the company lost....

Lets see I averaged 2160 hours a year. that's 6 days a week, 45 weeks a year.

I produced approximately 80 parts an hour.

So 172800 parts a year.

They charged an extra 12 a part.

So $2,073,600 lost to the company and union.

How come I'm not welding boilers?

5k union entrance fee up front unless you are a relative of a member.

And dues whether you work or not.

I.E. I have the skill but because I can't bribe my way in I don't have a right to work in this state.

Another thing seniority, also protects fucktards who can't do the job at the expense of the capable who don't have enough seniority when not using union loop holes.

Sign,

EX Teamster, EX UFCW, EX USWOA.

[Destroit]

and btw it wont matter how skilled you are or how well you do your job.... fred can be the stupidest motha fer in the world he'll get your job. just because they said so

Coulda swore this was how unions work...now I'm all sorts of confused. They keep people in the workplace who are unskilled and lazy due to loyalty and because they pay their dues. Fact.

Coulda swore this was how unions work...now I'm all sorts of confused. They keep people in the workplace who are unskilled and lazy due to loyalty and because they pay their dues. Fact.

[Destroit]

Wow really, cause if im not mistaken the teachers, firefighters and police are fighting to keep there unions.... matter of fact isnt it one of the reasons why Allen park wasent allowed to lay off there Entire Fire dept? You keep thinking its the unions whom start shit and the corperations whom just panic and when said coperation is firing you because you hit pay cap and well its cheaper to hire fred a new guy then it is to keep you, or they think your just to old, or your manager decides he no longer likes you because you wear blue shoes, or you sneeze funny dont go crying because you all made michigan a right to work state. corperations can and will fire you for what ever they want and well you now will never have a leg to stand on...... okies ill go with that.....

and btw it wont matter how skilled you are or how well you do your job.... fred can be the stupidest motha fer in the world he'll get your job. just because they said so

Firefighters, police and teachers who are easily gullible or have special interests are the ones that are fighting. I come from a long line of teachers, everyone in my family is a teacher. They allllll recognize the fact that union keep your children stupid and good hard-working teachers down, while giving lazy teachers promotions. I don't know a SINGLE teacher who is for unions that doesn't have a hidden agenda (i.e. they're lazy/greedy) or doesn't have common sense.

Firefighters, police and teachers who are easily gullible or have special interests are the ones that are fighting. I come from a long line of teachers, everyone in my family is a teacher. They allllll recognize the fact that union keep your children stupid and good hard-working teachers down, while giving lazy teachers promotions. I don't know a SINGLE teacher who is for unions that doesn't have a hidden agenda (i.e. they're lazy/greedy) or doesn't have common sense.

[Lillylu29]

So basicly anyone whom dont agree with you, or your family are greedy, and lazy.... nice I know plenty on both sides I know great teachers whom go above and beyone there duties outside of contracts whom support unions... and I dont think firefighters, and the cops whom were fighting NOT to be laid off were doing it because they were lazy and stupid but whatever..

[Vater Araignee]

So basicly anyone whom dont agree with you, or your family are greedy, and lazy.... nice I know plenty on both sides I know great teachers whom go above and beyone there duties outside of contracts whom support unions... and I dont think firefighters, and the cops whom were fighting NOT to be laid off were doing it because they were lazy and stupid but whatever..

Well you did say "the" giving the implication of "all" so it is only fair for another to use a statement just as false as yours without "you" getting offended.

Tit for tat.

[Lillylu29]

using the word "the" is not saying "all" You are then just putting words in my mouth and my statement wasent False it was MY opinion... none of this conversation is based on TRUE or False statements its infact all opinions.

[darknight1]

I read about this not too long ago. It's saddening but at the same time not surprising. I don't think it's union busting at all - the corporate world has hated the idea of worker rights ever since the mid 19th century and has been working to actively deny such vital things as health insurance, a reasonable work week, a liveable wage, retirement benefits and child labor laws during this entire time. With so many manufacturing plants in Michigan vanishing and popping back up in southeast Asia, Mexico and several other overseas nations, it's no wonder why there's not much of a job market there - all of the jobs that had supported the manufacturing industry also vanished. It's the primary reason why I chose to leave Michigan myself.

[Vater Araignee]

using the word "the" is not saying "all" You are then just putting words in my mouth and my statement wasent False it was MY opinion... none of this conversation is based on TRUE or False statements its infact all opinions.

I pointed out what you said and what it means, it is general semantics.

You did said say...

"Wow really, cause if im not mistaken the teachers, firefighters and police are fighting to keep there unions"

In fact you are mistaken because only "some of the" are fighting, not "the".

Without a limiting qualifier like some, part, portions of, etc, etc, "the" becomes all encompassing.

That is not putting words into your mouth, that is refusing to make an assumption that what you meant was B when you wrote A.

Say what you mean and if someone points out that you said something wrong don't take it as offense, take as it a learning opportunity to clarify.

And never never never use tactics you're not willing to have used on you or you're just acting like a "ultra liberal"/"uber conservative" cry baby.

Edited April 4, 2011 by Vater Araignee

[candyman]

Unions are giving good jobs to bad people now...opposite of what they were intended for.

Without Unions around people will once again be able to fend for themselves and fight for a job. I would rather wait longer to get hired than to be handed a job by other people.

The people that still want the Unions completely able to fend for themselves without using any more time and money than they already are...they have just never done it so they are afraid...afraid to make their way through life based on what they do and say...which you can actually do it turns out. If they won't take you for those reasons the job isn't worth it. If they are just afraid that they will fail but they actually have skills they just need some reassurance...if they are afraid because they have no actual skills and suck at being a teacher then they should remain afraid. Too many teachers are letting their kids fall behind...and too many are shoving their political beliefs into classes where they don't fucking belong which is just like teaching religion. I know a teacher fighting to keep her union around...that bitch taught English and both times I had here it was feminism to the point of blind hated and FAR left wing shit...barely any english stuff was taught. I had many more teachers like that and my friends have too...the education system has fallen behind and EVERYONE working for them must pay or prove that they tried to help but most of them will end up having to answer for their crimes against proper learning.

[taysteewonderbunny]

Firefighters, police and teachers who are easily gullible or have special interests are the ones that are fighting. I come from a long line of teachers, everyone in my family is a teacher. They allllll recognize the fact that union keep your children stupid and good hard-working teachers down, while giving lazy teachers promotions. I don't know a SINGLE teacher who is for unions that doesn't have a hidden agenda (i.e. they're lazy/greedy) or doesn't have common sense.

Please stop being so offensive. That's my mom you just called out there, and no, she is not lazy, never was, and no, she never did have a hidden agenda.

My mom was never adverse to work. She was up at 4 am most days so that she could take a five mile walk before my dad left for work. She did all the housework, the bulk of the child-rearing, and was up until 10 or 11 at night checking school papers or doing lesson plans.

She put herself through college working four part-time jobs; her parents never paid a dime. And she paid off her school loans within five years, forgoing vacations, new clothes, and even doctor visits to do it. Then, she went back for her masters.

She wanted to make money representative of the 300+ credit hours she put in to getting her degree. Her first year out of college, she made $4,000 working full time with no benefits. She wasn't allowed to leave her classroom to pee. She had no real lunch break. And, there was no maternity leave. Teachers who had kids then often were expected to leave the field--permanently. That's why my mom joined the union. She wanted a fair crack at a lifetime career that she loved at adequate compensation so that she could support herself and a family.

[KatRN05]

I don't think unions are bad as long as they are used for their intended purpose: to improve work conditions and to make sure employees are being compensated appropriately and fairly. I do not work at a hospital where the nurses are unionized. I can't say that I regret that because although I work in the inner-city, the conditions are quite good and patient-nurse ratios in the ICU are what they should be (2 patients-1 nurse). I have not received a raise since I started working at that particular hospital (3 years ago), but I cannot say that I am mad about that. I still have a job. My co-workers still have a job. We still have benefits and a pension. I cannot complain. Luckily, where I work they do listen to their employees, the last hospital I worked at not so much. And the last hospital I worked at ended up laying off nurses about a year after I started at the new employer.

Edited April 5, 2011 by KatRN05

[candyman]

I think pretty much everyone has already stated that in some way, shape, or form Unions can be a good thing IF they stick to their intended purpose. However, if you really do look at how many of them have been running things recently they are not sticking to their intended purpose. They have twisted the rules to become some sort of powerhouse that can twist the arms of companies ALL of the time instead of just when they need to...and they have come to the point where they a political bombs that politicians stock up and throw at each other or at us...either that or they just blow up by themselves.

If the Unions must stick around they need to stop and lay out some ground rules...because right now when I hear Union I picture the hired merchants working for the English becoming pirates because they didn't get exactly what they want and they saw the glitter of gold and riches...yes I just compared Unions to Pirates but sadly that is only a few beards, sailing ships, and 2 ARRRR's away from being mostly true.

[KatRN05]

I think pretty much everyone has already stated that in some way, shape, or form Unions can be a good thing IF they stick to their intended purpose. However, if you really do look at how many of them have been running things recently they are not sticking to their intended purpose. They have twisted the rules to become some sort of powerhouse that can twist the arms of companies ALL of the time instead of just when they need to...and they have come to the point where they a political bombs that politicians stock up and throw at each other or at us...either that or they just blow up by themselves.

That's how I feel about most unions right now, specifically the auto unions. Sometimes I feel like they never want to compromise. They want something without having to give up or compromise on something else. And yes, they are political bombs.That's just how I feel.

Edited April 5, 2011 by KatRN05

[darknight1]

So basicly anyone whom dont agree with you, or your family are greedy, and lazy.... nice I know plenty on both sides I know great teachers whom go above and beyone there duties outside of contracts whom support unions... and I dont think firefighters, and the cops whom were fighting NOT to be laid off were doing it because they were lazy and stupid but whatever..

Thank you for supporting firefighter and police unions. Not a single peace officer or firefighter I have met in my lifetime have been lazy. The attack on public unions is ridiculous, especially when it comes down to firefighters and police. There needs to be some sort of protections in place in case they get hurt in the line of duty.

[KatRN05]

Thank you for supporting firefighter and police unions. Not a single peace officer or firefighter I have met in my lifetime have been lazy. The attack on public unions is ridiculous, especially when it comes down to firefighters and police. There needs to be some sort of protections in place in case they get hurt in the line of duty.

I'm in favor of police/firefighter unions. Compared to my job, their job is by far the hardest. Plus, the cops need their union in case some dumbfuck brings up a non-legit IA complaint against them. I bring this up because I didn't realize how bad a IA investigation on a cop was even if the case is proven unfounded.

[darknight1]

I'm in favor of police/firefighter unions. Compared to my job, their job is by far the hardest. Plus, the cops need their union in case some dumbfuck brings up a non-legit IA complaint against them. I bring this up because I didn't realize how bad a IA investigation on a cop was even if the case is proven unfounded.

Thank you as well Kat. I cannot fathom why anyone would attack firefighter and police unions given how dangerous their occupations are.