Michigan Police Deny Secretly Extracting Mobile Data During Traffic Stops

[Onyx]

(From an article in last week's business insider, link below to read more)

"By now, many of you may have heard about iPhone tracking and recording your location data, but is there anything else being extracted from cell phones without our knowledge? If you're a Michigan state resident, the answer is an alarming "maybe".

Michigan's police department have been using handheld gadgets called "extraction devices" for nearly three years now, which can take every lick of data from a mobile phone. The American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) of Michigan claims that these DEDs (data extraction devices) are being used to secretly copy cell phone data during routine traffic stops.

Seems like a serious violation to the 4th Amendment, right? If the search and seizure law prohibits police officers from checking your trunk after getting pulled over, how could stealing your cell phone data be an exception? Do they really need to investigate your photos and texts? Don't worry, the ACLU are on the case (despite being unsuccessful).

The extractors are called UFEDs—Universal Forensic Extraction Devices—which are made and sold to law enforcement by Cellebrite. The data stealer can swipe everything in under two minutes, including text messages, photos, videos, passwords and even GPS data, from over 3,000 different mobile devices. It can even take encrypted data, and no password can hold it back.

However, the Michigan State Police department have recently issued a statement to defend their use of this hacking technology. In it, they claim that the DEDs are only used if a search warrant is obtained, or if the person gives consent to have his/her phone searched. Also, they state that only specialty teams use them on criminal cases, not during routine traffic stops. And the kicker—the devices are commercially available."

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/data-pirates-aka-cops-can-hack-your-cell-phone-2011-4#ixzz1KZq07SM7

ACLU scrutinizes State Police over device that grabs cell phone data

http://www.freep.com/article/20110421/NEWS06/104210478/ACLU-scrutinizes-State-Police-over-device-grabs-cell-phone-data?odyssey=nav|head

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/34/3458.asp

Edited April 25, 2011 by Onyx

[candyman]

I don't worry about the devices because they don't need them to obtain data...the ability to get data using the internet and a few programs is old technology.

What worries me is the ACLU being on it...every time they get "on" something I picture a crazed grandma grabbing her shotgun and jumping in the family Hudson so go and avenge her raped cat...they are like what would happen if you gave legal power to a meth-addict hell bent on seeking rights for all unicorns.

[Nightgaunt]

Although it would explain why I was pulled over 3 times last year, ostensibly because the officers just felt like chatting. Oh, and of course to request that I allow them to search my car...

I don't worry about the devices because they don't need them to obtain data...the ability to get data using the internet and a few programs is old technology.

What worries me is the ACLU being on it...every time they get "on" something I picture a crazed grandma grabbing her shotgun and jumping in the family Hudson so go and avenge her raped cat...they are like what would happen if you gave legal power to a meth-addict hell bent on seeking rights for all unicorns.

[Vater Araignee]

The howler monkeys ain't doing crap except letting the public know and fighting a 500k bill from the state over the information.

So the next substantial thing we hear about them concerning this is going to be if they actually have to pay or not.

Ya wanna know exactly how the "permission" works?

If you weren't speeding all you have to do is let me check the data on your phone to prove it.

Fortunately that got countered by the passenger.

Was your dash cam on? Trooper said "No" and the passenger said "Then issue the ticket, show up in court, lose and get sued for harassing him. Do I need to explain the law to you?" (yup sometimes color of law works on the law too.LOL)

The driver was not speeding when the cop saw him, but had he handed over the data then the cop theoretically could have found out that the driver was speeding earlier and ticketed him for it.

For those that don't see how that information can be extracted, some cell phones wile turned on basically passively check for cell towers and some brands keep the data in memory. From there you use the time difference between than the towers signaled and the phone receives the signals to triangulate where the car was at that time. Triangulate two points and and use the time that was recorded at those two points and you can calculate the average velocity the more points the more acculturate the calculation becomes. So lets say you phone is recording the data every 30 seconds and shows you points as being more than 3080 feet apart then you where supposedly doing over 70 mph. Now here is the big problem, everything that effects GPS signals, causing inaccuracies can effect cell tower triangulation but worse due to their lack of elevation. Ultimately I'm more concerned about insurance companies like Progressive who want to make it mandatory for you to have tracking devices installed in your car that they can check willy nilly. After all owning a cellphone is optional.

Here is the real kicker. AT 50k a pop for the latest models (the wireless models with a 1/4mile zone) means that only criminals, cops and state sanctioned criminals with badges can get them. Oh and the stupid tech freaks with money to burn.

Now the first 3 groups I mentioned are in yet another hi tech arms race, unfortunately for all of them so are the white hats. There are groups of geek working on keeping programs updated to destroy these units and they can not be fixed by popping into Radio Shack. So find and download one if you want your phone protected on principal.

Unfortunately the only true effects it will have is in stopping the random use "temporarily" and costing the tax payers yet more more we cant afford.

[Scar My Machine]

I don't worry about the devices because they don't need them to obtain data...the ability to get data using the internet and a few programs is old technology.

What worries me is the ACLU being on it...every time they get "on" something I picture a crazed grandma grabbing her shotgun and jumping in the family Hudson so go and avenge her raped cat...they are like what would happen if you gave legal power to a meth-addict hell bent on seeking rights for all unicorns.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.........this coming from someone that WANTS to work for the CIA or FBI. (BTW - IMO the FBI and CIA are no longer used to protect Americans but rather terrorize them).

Well, for reenlistment I am most likely going for Psyops or Intelligence as a second option...both would get me a decent chance at a future with the DOD, NSA, CIA, FBI...all the organizations people point fingers at.

Not much of a fan of our constitutional freedoms Candyman? Does wanting to protect our freedoms make us terrorists in the eyes of the feds?

[Scar My Machine]

I will be driving with my cell phone off from here on out. Kiss my ass police.

[Vater Araignee]

Does wanting to protect our freedoms make us terrorists in the eyes of the feds?

According to the DOD, DOJ, DHS, FBI and NTA publications... Yes.

Hell according to them, protesting is low level terrorism.

I will be driving with my cell phone off from here on out. Kiss my ass police.

What type of phone? If it is a smart phone, then turning it off wont work. If it is a simpler type that is relatively new then pulling the battery wont work. If you have an older phone or removed the secondary battery the only thing you have accomplished is forcing them to tether.

My solution is the exact solution I use because I hate maintaining that level of contact in the first place.

Cell phone lives in the glove box without a battery in it and the battery is kept on its own charger. It has only been used during the tree yearly power outages we have out here and onetime because I was not informed that the spare tire was already on the car. I still don't think that the 5 bucks a month is worth it but it gives my wife peace of mind.

[candyman]

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm.........this coming from someone that WANTS to work for the CIA or FBI. (BTW - IMO the FBI and CIA are no longer used to protect Americans but rather terrorize them).

Not much of a fan of our constitutional freedoms Candyman? Does wanting to protect our freedoms make us terrorists in the eyes of the feds?

A little defensive there eh? Did I ever mention what position I would take on issues or what my intentions were? I am sure that my current work here in the Dominican Republic shows my evil intentions towards humanity...little do they know what brand new schools, clinics, equipment, and all the free medical care REALLY does to them.

I had to actually leave the country to perform a humanitarian effort because every fucking time we run this shit in the states we get protesters. We can be doing the same fucking job as other relief groups but since we wear ACU's we are somehow trying to fuck people over. Do you think that helps my decisions any? I am basically working for jack shit, which I knew when I signed up, and I put myself in a job where I can help and most of what I get from the American public is spit in the face. So fuck that...I know you all want the military budget to get cut down to help with our current budget problem in America so let us cut out the largest costs right now...fire all the civilian workers and pull back all the humanitarian missions and supplies.

Yes I pointer fingers at the ACLU because although their spoken intention is to help the people they often forget that point and mess it up. It may be intentional and it may not but in all their efforts they really only take a complicated mess and turn it into more of a clusterfuck. It is an electronic work that is highly connected and people gotta stop throwing shit fits at every turn of events that occurs. Yeah this is stupid...however, I said before that this technology is OLD and even with the old signal equipment and computers that my unit has I know a few guys that can whip up a system like this in a few hours AND they don't even have to pull you over to do it since they can accomplish the task from miles away.

While I don't really understand you extreme paranoia I really won't pry into it but I will take some fucking offense and your clippy little remarks because my intentions at joining an organization are my own AND if they are good intentions I would suggest you don't fuck it up or I may just be content at being the black suited guy that really is poking into places I don't belong.

All that being said tell every American you see that the US soldiers here in the Dominican Republic really apologizes for providing aid in both medical and engineering areas to the people here...with the current situation we are in as far as food and basic supplies because of budget cuts we are sick and tired or the petty bitching going on back at home. Count your blessings for at least being able to have a damn cell phone because some of the shit that I have seen down here would make your skin crawl...

Edited April 26, 2011 by candyman

[Destroit]

While I don't really understand you extreme paranoia

I understand healthy moderate paranoia, but some people who post on here go so far and above to "tear down the man!" and live in Tinhat City, it makes me sad to know these people will turn around when their 80, just as the generations of SUPER conspirators did before them and think: "Wow...the government didn't come after all. I'm waiting comfy in an nice home waiting to die. Wtf did I waste my life on? Fuck..."

Moderate paranoia is essential, but anyone who goes through drastic measures to ensure that a police officer won't read a text message saying that you're picking up the kids from soccer on the way home from work, is wasting precious minutes of their life going through so many security measures and so much worry...for what?

I say always be weary, but always draw a distinct line. In the security industry, they're called trade-offs, the security measure has to be WORTH it.

Granted, given a few years, everyone will throw up their arms about this, have it pushed through legislation to make it illegal, and the conspirators will be on to "the next one". It just takes legislature a few years to catch up, and you bet your ass police will take advantage of it.

I understand healthy moderate paranoia, but some people who post on here go so far and above to "tear down the man!" and live in Tinhat City, it makes me sad to know these people will turn around when their 80, just as the generations of SUPER conspirators did before them and think: "Wow...the government didn't come after all. I'm waiting comfy in an nice home waiting to die. Wtf did I waste my life on? Fuck..."

Moderate paranoia is essential, but anyone who goes through drastic measures to ensure that a police officer won't read a text message saying that you're picking up the kids from soccer on the way home from work, is wasting precious minutes of their life going through so many security measures and so much worry...for what?

I say always be weary, but always draw a distinct line. In the security industry, they're called trade-offs, the security measure has to be WORTH it.

Granted, given a few years, everyone will throw up their arms about this, have it pushed through legislation to make it illegal, and the conspirators will be on to "the next one". It just takes legislature a few years to catch up, and you bet your ass police will take advantage of it.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Chernobyl

[Destroit]

a damn cell phone because some of the shit that I have seen down here would make your skin crawl...

[candyman]

I understand healthy moderate paranoia, but some people who post on here go so far and above to "tear down the man!" and live in Tinhat City, it makes me sad to know these people will turn around when their 80, just as the generations of SUPER conspirators did before them and think: "Wow...the government didn't come after all. I'm waiting comfy in an nice home waiting to die. Wtf did I waste my life on? Fuck..."

Moderate paranoia is essential, but anyone who goes through drastic measures to ensure that a police officer won't read a text message saying that you're picking up the kids from soccer on the way home from work, is wasting precious minutes of their life going through so many security measures and so much worry...for what?

I say always be weary, but always draw a distinct line. In the security industry, they're called trade-offs, the security measure has to be WORTH it.

Granted, given a few years, everyone will throw up their arms about this, have it pushed through legislation to make it illegal, and the conspirators will be on to "the next one". It just takes legislature a few years to catch up, and you bet your ass police will take advantage of it.

It is just that while I understand that we have problems they are FAR less that most everyone else. The poverty in most areas here is just sickening and while I look at the school and feel like we helped I turn around and see houses ready to fall over, a kid drinking out of an old bucket full of brown water, and vehicles holding on by threads...literally...and I realize that we have a long way to go.

The nice thing is that these people are very accepting and take everything they have as a gift. They stand around to watch us and talk to us and some even offer to help with the projects. The last 3 trips to the Cocheo site, I think that is how its spelled, I gave my MRE to the kids watching. Normally giving stuff to kids at home gets a nasty look from parents...but here the kids tore it up and then the adults around there brought over music, tea, and killed a goat to bring us something. I mean damn I don't even know how I could live a satisfied life down here and these people just push along...yet at home where we have literally everything people go apeshit over pretty much anything that isn't in their plan for life.

Right now I can't go out to the site to finish painting the building because the protesters are here...led by...drumroll...............................AMERICANS!

[Destroit]

It is just that while I understand that we have problems they are FAR less that most everyone else. The poverty in most areas here is just sickening and while I look at the school and feel like we helped I turn around and see houses ready to fall over, a kid drinking out of an old bucket full of brown water, and vehicles holding on by threads...literally...and I realize that we have a long way to go.

The nice thing is that these people are very accepting and take everything they have as a gift. They stand around to watch us and talk to us and some even offer to help with the projects. The last 3 trips to the Cocheo site, I think that is how its spelled, I gave my MRE to the kids watching. Normally giving stuff to kids at home gets a nasty look from parents...but here the kids tore it up and then the adults around there brought over music, tea, and killed a goat to bring us something. I mean damn I don't even know how I could live a satisfied life down here and these people just push along...yet at home where we have literally everything people go apeshit over pretty much anything that isn't in their plan for life.

Right now I can't go out to the site to finish painting the building because the protesters are here...led by...drumroll...............................AMERICANS!

I know that's why I laugh at so many of the spoiled posts in this forum, much like I'd expect a mother to laugh at her kid throwing a tantrum over not getting a gaming system. Silly gooses! Clearly they've never driven through Krainz Woods or Brightmoor because had they done they would never complain about a single thing. Everyone here is so spoiled and so all about their own agenda. My household growing up never topped over $10,000 yearly and we weren't on handouts once, it would have been dishonorable to us. $10,000 a year was a lot of money to me growing up because there was so much SACRIFICE (capitalized to signify the fact that most American's have no idea what that actually means) on the part of my mom that I didn't realize we were poor until I got older.

But now I'm going off on a tangent a little .

And don't think I'm saying JUST settle, where YOU can improve things in your lives and in the lives of others...do it! But when it's forcefully at the expense or freedoms of others, your freedoms and needs shouldn't matter at that point. I don't think it's right the government does it, I'm not even condoning this whole thing with cell phones, I realize it's a scratch on the surface of something probably deeper. But my whole point with people being TOO paranoid is just that: there has to be a line somewhere. You can't be so paranoid that you don't walk outside. My grandma misses a bunch of plays and concerts in Detroit because she's afraid that second she steps over 8 Mile that twenty black people (she's old fashioned, so yeah she is lite-racist, she's like 80) are going to jump out from the bushes and shoot her dead at once. She thinks this because she watches the news. So she sits in her house now, she's always afraid to go certain places, and I understand that because she's a little older but she is TOO PARANOID.

Paranoia to the point where it hinders your life or forces you to change the way you think or operate is the TRUE enemy. Paranoia is the modern terrorist that we really have to keep our eyes on, and the nation sending in the paranoia-troops to take ourselves out is us.

I know that's why I laugh at so many of the spoiled posts in this forum, much like I'd expect a mother to laugh at her kid throwing a tantrum over not getting a gaming system. Silly gooses! Clearly they've never driven through Krainz Woods or Brightmoor because had they done they would never complain about a single thing. Everyone here is so spoiled and so all about their own agenda. My household growing up never topped over $10,000 yearly and we weren't on handouts once, it would have been dishonorable to us. $10,000 a year was a lot of money to me growing up because there was so much SACRIFICE (capitalized to signify the fact that most American's have no idea what that actually means) on the part of my mom that I didn't realize we were poor until I got older.

But now I'm going off on a tangent a little .

And don't think I'm saying JUST settle, where YOU can improve things in your lives and in the lives of others...do it! But when it's forcefully at the expense or freedoms of others, your freedoms and needs shouldn't matter at that point. I don't think it's right the government does it, I'm not even condoning this whole thing with cell phones, I realize it's a scratch on the surface of something probably deeper. But my whole point with people being TOO paranoid is just that: there has to be a line somewhere. You can't be so paranoid that you don't walk outside. My grandma misses a bunch of plays and concerts in Detroit because she's afraid that second she steps over 8 Mile that twenty black people (she's old fashioned, so yeah she is lite-racist, she's like 80) are going to jump out from the bushes and shoot her dead at once. She thinks this because she watches the news. So she sits in her house now, she's always afraid to go certain places, and I understand that because she's a little older but she is TOO PARANOID.

Paranoia to the point where it hinders your life or forces you to change the way you think or operate is the TRUE enemy. Paranoia is the modern terrorist that we really have to keep our eyes on, and the nation sending in the paranoia-troops to take ourselves out is us.

Edited April 26, 2011 by Chernobyl

[candyman]

Also, what is posting complaints going to do? Anger them, make them laugh, do they even read these? It won't make them change their ways no matter what you post. DO SOMETHING! Half the reason I get irritated over this is because of the lack of action. You consider it action to have some other people take care of it and then you don't have to do anything. THAT is why I don't like the ACLU because too long have people gone "hey I don't like this I should complain and then go have the ACLU take care of it" and then the ACLU does but instead of sticking to the goal they declare a holy war which we know doesn't solve much does it?

Bitching isn't action. Calling the ACLU police isn't action. Writing your senator isn't action. Shit...I don't care what your belief is but if you take action for your beliefs then I would have more respect for you as a human being. Hell, I have more respect for the "freedom fighters" overseas because although their views are warped and they are committing crimes against their own people they are ACTING! And having respect for your enemy can make a huge difference between misjudging them and taking them seriously. Don't get me wrong...I HATE terrorists for what they do...but all the political banter and bitching in American gives more credit to them because this is just stupid. I joined the Army to help make a difference because more often than not I am called on relief missions in foreign countries where I can help...and many other soldiers joined with similar reasons...WE ACTED ON OUR BELIEFS!

Act or shut up...armchair crusaders are make our country look worse every day so if you see one don't imitate them...take a stand that, god forbid, could cost you some effort or would in some way inconvenience you.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

By that reasoning I'd guess the ACLU gets a thumbs up for actually trying to do things, rather than just complaining about them even though the do seem off-base often.

I'm one step back from that though, I'd like to give people that actually care enough about reality to comment on it (including everyone here) a positive spin, even if they never do anything. That IS a step in the right direction, one that many, many people never even take. Posting comments/complaints can lead to action, saying nothing won't lead to anything (or is unlikely to). Also if we could bias people toward having reality be their "entertainment" (to oversimplify) rather than fantasy-land, that would also be a step in the right direction, even if it doesn't sound like it would be.

We live in a world (and maybe it's always been this way) that just ignores reality for the most part. And i don't mean ignores it in the sense of ignoring data, i mean ignoring it wholesale and just don't even bother to even make an attempt at caring or even thinking that caring about what goes on in the world is a good idea.

I'm definitely not a political activist , but I do think it is important and noble work to get involved in , regardless of the specific ideology.

Unfortunately many are turned off for various reasons, not the least of which is the inablity for some to discuss things without blowing a gasket. Although, even worse is just the total indifference / immersion in the reality-show-universe so heavily as to not even peek ones head out of fantasy land long enough to have a look-see at what is going on. People that do , should be encouraged, rather than discounted because its "not enough". I do see the reasoning, and its valid , but not what we want to do in the big picture I don't think. Thowing the baby out with the bathwater so to speak.

[candyman]

But there are certain way to speak on a subject that gets people to act...and then there are ways that just provoke comments from them and increase paranoia. None of the "what do you think" or any calm "i am going to try this" or even a "maybe they are doing it because"...most of the time I see "those evil (insert something) and trying to steal my (insert something else) so I am going to show them by (an action here) and I hope it teaches them a lesson!"

I see focus on individual action that is more motivated by fear and self-preservation than it is whole the good of the people. I see it as bar fight mentality where you don't care WHY the person bumped you and spilled your drink...you just go into a tirade and sort it out later.

I did kinda lash out but...I did not see any reason for the comments made to me. The quote from another post was made as a joke, although employment with them is my goal, and for lack of a better term was a dick move. After dealing with the comments, not on here really, about what I am currently doing from people online and in my face I am starting to get a little pissed off. My version of acting on your beliefs may be different than other people too...I am eating dog food, its over 120*F every day, showers once a week, and malaria everywhere but I am here trying to help these people so I REALLY don't take my career choice being poked at very well because I am trying to stay away from combat and stay in the humanitarian part...which the DOD would actually help me do even more believe it or not...they are running this whole operation.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

But there are certain way to speak on a subject that gets people to act...and then there are ways that just provoke comments from them and increase paranoia. None of the "what do you think" or any calm "i am going to try this" or even a "maybe they are doing it because"...most of the time I see "those evil (insert something) and trying to steal my (insert something else) so I am going to show them by (an action here) and I hope it teaches them a lesson!"

I see focus on individual action that is more motivated by fear and self-preservation than it is whole the good of the people. I see it as bar fight mentality where you don't care WHY the person bumped you and spilled your drink...you just go into a tirade and sort it out later.

I did kinda lash out but...I did not see any reason for the comments made to me. The quote from another post was made as a joke, although employment with them is my goal, and for lack of a better term was a dick move. After dealing with the comments, not on here really, about what I am currently doing from people online and in my face I am starting to get a little pissed off. My version of acting on your beliefs may be different than other people too...I am eating dog food, its over 120*F every day, showers once a week, and malaria everywhere but I am here trying to help these people so I REALLY don't take my career choice being poked at very well because I am trying to stay away from combat and stay in the humanitarian part...which the DOD would actually help me do even more believe it or not...they are running this whole operation.

Yeah I think we were talking about different things. The people that ONLY 'complain' and cry about what they don't have , (almost always) need to get a sense of perspective such as what you and Cher were referring to. Far too often people just bitch and bitch over what is usually fairly minor stuff, and when its not minor they act like its Amageddon due to the entitled , sort of fantasy land that they think the world owes them. Not that there is anything wrong with complaining in and of itself, its as you say "the way" its done. Or in my interpritation... the rapidity and never-ending way in which some people do it. They jump right to the complaining almost instantly without putting their situation into any kind of perspective nor trying to think how they could improve.

[Vater Araignee]

Also, what is posting complaints going to do? Anger them, make them laugh, do they even read these? It won't make them change their ways no matter what you post. DO SOMETHING! Half the reason I get irritated over this is because of the lack of action. You consider it action to have some other people take care of it and then you don't have to do anything. THAT is why I don't like the ACLU because too long have people gone "hey I don't like this I should complain and then go have the ACLU take care of it" and then the ACLU does but instead of sticking to the goal they declare a holy war which we know doesn't solve much does it?

Bitching isn't action. Calling the ACLU police isn't action. Writing your senator isn't action. Shit...I don't care what your belief is but if you take action for your beliefs then I would have more respect for you as a human being. Hell, I have more respect for the "freedom fighters" overseas because although their views are warped and they are committing crimes against their own people they are ACTING! And having respect for your enemy can make a huge difference between misjudging them and taking them seriously. Don't get me wrong...I HATE terrorists for what they do...but all the political banter and bitching in American gives more credit to them because this is just stupid. I joined the Army to help make a difference because more often than not I am called on relief missions in foreign countries where I can help...and many other soldiers joined with similar reasons...WE ACTED ON OUR BELIEFS!

Act or shut up...armchair crusaders are make our country look worse every day so if you see one don't imitate them...take a stand that, god forbid, could cost you some effort or would in some way inconvenience you.

Dud,

First off publicly complaining is action. In fact it is the number one action. It may not be eloquent but it does serve its purpose by letting those who are silent know that they are not alone and hopefully drawing them out. It also lets those who are taking more action know that they are gaining numbers. You have to convince others that there is a problem before you can take the next step.

You whole post sound as if you believe that all other options are gone and that picking up a fire arm is the only honest action left. To me that sounds like you feel that something is seriously wrong and the last solution is the only viable solution, but we both know that "sounds like" doesn't necessarily equal truth.

I understand what you are going through, completely and totally my father and2 of his brothers went through the same thing. The differences are the world is smaller so you have no choice but to be hit by it sooner and you are not directly involved in the true reason behind the protests. Keep in mind tho, it isn't likely that you will return home just to walk off base and get surrounded by throngs of hippies who will spit on you and call you baby killer and the people of today are a lot more willing to hear what you have to say. If they actually listen to it, well that's a different story, but by the very act of you posting, be it well thought out argument, spin or just plane 'ol fashioned bitching, someone will read it and agree or not, start to at least understand where you are coming from.

I agree the ACLU is a problem hell their name for the most part is a misnomer. You don't see them standing up for the all free speech just for the free speech that pushes their agenda. You only see them running to the defense of a lefties right to bear arms. They praise someone attacking anti-choicers but as soon as the anti-lifers gets their ass handed back with a boot wedged in it they condemn the anti-choicers for defending themselves.

As for the do something, do what?

Publicly air grievances to gather support? Participate in protests (translation= low level terrorism) gain more support and to show authority the growing numbers against what ever the protest is directed towards? Get the growing numbers to show their representatives how they are dissatisfied?

Or go straight for the gun?

You and I both know that it is no anywhere near time for the last option so that only leaves room for the first options that you are bitching about. And that is the equivalent of O'reilly claiming to support the constitution but as soon as someone has a valid point that is contrary to his opinion he starts going contrary to The First Amendment by yelling shut up pin head.

---------

Just to make sure everyone knows. The way I treat my cellphone is not out of paranoia, it is out of disdain for people who act like they cant live without them and for people who refuse to understand that the only thing I use a phone for is quick exchange of information. I hate chit chat on phones and it seems that the only way to prevent people from calling is by leaving the phone turned off.

The fact that I have to pull the battery from my phone is only because I am a cheapskate who threatened my carrier with a law suit if they didn't support the phone during a reasonable product lifespan I say that is until it breaks or cell tech changes. Fortunately I have enough skill to make battery packs and keep the phone alive.

[candyman]

Actually we have a protest coming tomorrow...locals with the "help" of Americans. You know, because we are providing medical and dental shit along with new buildings. The local military is already suited up and the civilians got their weapons out to help too...fires and small arms are expected.

And the protests are actually increasing in number around our bases.

[Vater Araignee]

Actually we have a protest coming tomorrow...locals with the "help" of Americans. You know, because we are providing medical and dental shit along with new buildings. The local military is already suited up and the civilians got their weapons out to help too...fires and small arms are expected.

And the protests are actually increasing in number around our bases.

Want I should give you the real reason behind that?