You have got to be kidding me.

[phee]

Friggen Birthers...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20110427/ts_yblog_theticket/white-house-releases-obama-birth-certificate

[EvilEve]

... that's all i can say. really? seriously?

[phee]

I am sorry if I come across as biased... I know that a lot of republicans/conservatives/people on the right are not racist... but this would not even come up if he was a white dude.

[Vater Araignee]

If you say so Phee, fortunately I say the opposite is true.

I don't give a shit what anyone thinks, I don't want anyone in office that isn't...

"Native born." We all know that people with the power he has now can product a fake, not saying that it is, I'm just saying he can.

"Gave up their citizenship." You can't become a citizen of Indonesia without rejecting your U.S. citizenship.

"Beholden to a foreign power." Calling it a kinetic action does not change what it is.

It doesn't have a thing to do with skin color, I decided that Californians where treacherous fucktards when they elected Arnie.

Edited April 27, 2011 by Vater Araignee

[phee]

If you say so Phee, fortunately I say the opposite is true.

I don't give a shit what anyone thinks, I don't want anyone in office that isn't...

"Native born." We all know that people with the power he has now can product a fake, not saying that it is, I'm just saying he can.

"Gave up their citizenship." You can't become a citizen of Indonesia without rejecting your U.S. citizenship.

"Beholden to a foreign power." Calling it a kinetic action does not change what it is.

It doesn't have a thing to do with skin color, I decided that Californians where treacherous fucktards when they elected Arnie.

The opposite is true meaning it would have happened if he was white and not if he was black?

[wormsinwombs]

I am sorry if I come across as biased... I know that a lot of republicans/conservatives/people on the right are not racist... but this would not even come up if he was a white dude.

Ya I pretty much agree with this its ridiculous!

[victoriavengeance (1)]

If you say so Phee, fortunately I say the opposite is true.

I don't give a shit what anyone thinks, I don't want anyone in office that isn't...

"Native born." We all know that people with the power he has now can product a fake, not saying that it is, I'm just saying he can.

"Gave up their citizenship." You can't become a citizen of Indonesia without rejecting your U.S. citizenship.

"Beholden to a foreign power." Calling it a kinetic action does not change what it is.

It doesn't have a thing to do with skin color, I decided that Californians where treacherous fucktards when they elected Arnie.

yeah, if it was a white dude i pretty much would still wanna see his birth cert if he kept not giving it hahaha. just sayin.

[Vater Araignee]

The opposite is true meaning it would have happened if he was white and not if he was black?

Exactly, they all are required to provide proof and a cert of live birth is not proof.

As far as I am concerned, he was behaving as if he was guilty of not being born here by refusing to provide the birth certificate. I'm flabbergasted as to why he hasn't been impeached yet based exclusively on his Indonesian citizenship.

Oh wait, no I'm not. Nobody but the insane wants that other fucktard in charge.

[Simon Bar Sinister]

a cert of live birth is not proof.

actually, it is. in every instance.

[Vater Araignee]

actually, it is. in every instance.

Not when I can go to Beyer Memorial Hospital showing them what looks like an old legitimate birth certificate that states the birth took place there and ask them to give me a certificate of live birth and they comply without verifying the validity of said birth certificate.

Actually the way it happened was I thought I could get a copy of my birth certificate there and they printed me a live birth cert then told me where to take it in Ann Arbor so that I only needed it and my SS card to get the birth certificate. I wasn't in their computer system, they didn't look through hard files and they didn't even call anyone to make sure that a person with my name even existed.

A LBC may be legal but it is not proof in any instance.

[StormKnight (1)]

Actually, it is state dependent.

I have no access to my original birth certificate or a copy thereof. This is by state law of the state I was born. On the original birth certificate are the names of my biological parents.

Instead, I have access to a second birth certificate document, stating my adoptive parents. However, it is necessary and sufficient to prove I am natural born citizen of the country. However, I have no access to the original that was started at the time of birth. A copy forging my adoptive parents as birth parents.

While adoption birth certificates may be held under different set of laws (and some states do allow the adoptive child to see and have a copy of that original certificate,) it is not inconceivable that original birth certificates may not be accessible dependent on the states laws. Hawaii restricts it, if memory serves.

Since the federal government has not used implied powers to standardize a birth certificate notation/release protocols, the States control how and where the certificates are issued, and how copies and originals are controlled, not the federal government. So basically, the federal government relies on the states to verify natural born status.

Granted, had there been a federal birth certificate with set release protocols for all natural born citizens, this whole thing would have been stopped dead in it tracks. But I don't think everyone would want that.

Remember:

"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

The state of Hawaii exerted its right to enforce its release law uniformly, without exception.

[FarrIL]

We've wasted way too much time on a self-made debate. We flipped a lid because he's our first black president and people didnt stop there. They just absolutely had to fuss over the thought that because he's our first black president, we just really gotta make sure he's rightfully our President.

Really? Not like the rising gas prices are important or anything. Pay no attention to the rise in unemployed citizens. Welfare babies, crime, drugs.... no no, making sure an official release of a birth certificate is far more important than these other issues.

Waste of our time. MOVE ON!

[Vater Araignee]

Actually, it is state dependent.I have no access to my original birth certificate or a copy thereof. This is by state law of the state I was born. On the original birth certificate are the names of my biological parents.Instead, I have access to a second birth certificate document, stating my adoptive parents. However, it is necessary and sufficient to prove I am natural born citizen of the country. However, I have no access to the original that was started at the time of birth. A copy forging my adoptive parents as birth parents.While adoption birth certificates may be held under different set of laws (and some states do allow the adoptive child to see and have a copy of that original certificate,) it is not inconceivable that original birth certificates may not be accessible dependent on the states laws. Hawaii restricts it, if memory serves.Since the federal government has not used implied powers to standardize a birth certificate notation/release protocols, the States control how and where the certificates are issued, and how copies and originals are controlled, not the federal government. So basically, the federal government relies on the states to verify natural born status.Granted, had there been a federal birth certificate with set release protocols for all natural born citizens, this whole thing would have been stopped dead in it tracks. But I don't think everyone would want that.Remember:"The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."The state of Hawaii exerted its right to enforce its release law uniformly, without exception.

Sorry dude, true as the law my be, Hawaii denying Obama was not the issue. Within their own law all he has to do is the appropriate paperwork. Once Hawaii took their stance (bravo) it fell upon him and his actions from the beginnings of his regime show that he has zero regard for The Tenth so any "I was showing constitutional support" defense goes out the door. As far as I can see his only defense is "I was fucking with The People".

We've wasted way too much time on a self-made debate. We flipped a lid because he's our first black president and people didnt stop there. They just absolutely had to fuss over the thought that because he's our first black president, we just really gotta make sure he's rightfully our President.Really? Not like the rising gas prices are important or anything. Pay no attention to the rise in unemployed citizens. Welfare babies, crime, drugs.... no no, making sure an official release of a birth certificate is far more important than these other issues.Waste of our time. MOVE ON!

We didn't do anything, you wanna include yourself then that's fine.

Had it been Gore doing the same thing then I would have become 10 times more adamant. OK no I wouldn't, I would have been screaming for someone to shoot me but I think you get the point.

And you just keep on thinking that the people wanting to make sure we don't have a foreigner in office is a waist of time. I mean it isn't like a foreign president would ignore the constitution and get us into more wars (like Obama) spreading our forces even thinner so that they could, saaaay, call in their buddies to invade. Oh no a foreigner wouldn't dare create laws to help other countries at the detriment of us.

Get over the white guilt, it is just a covert form of racism.

[phee]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_theticket/20110427/ts_yblog_theticket/birth-certificate-wont-end-race-related-attacks-on-the-president

[creatureofthenyte]

I'll play devil's advocate; what would you say if, it turns out that he Is foreign born ?

I have a feeling that the truth on this will probably come out either right before, or after the election.

[phee]

I'll play devil's advocate; what would you say if, it turns out that he Is foreign born ?

I have a feeling that the truth on this will probably come out either right before, or after the election.

What would I say? I would say that would be a very bad day for race relations in this country because every racist fuck in the country would then feel vindicated.

[candyman]

I don't care where he was born or what color he is...we still got shafted. He played it like Kennedy, well like all of them, and got his image to the point where he can screw EVERYTHING up in his term but at the and he does one little, tiny thing and YAY! Get your image to that point and nobody can touch you or else they are sexist, racist, jealous, blah blah blah...

[Vater Araignee]

What would I say? I would say that would be a very bad day for race relations in this country because every racist fuck in the country would then feel vindicated.

Oh, worry about the relatively minor implication. Well at least racists in denial as to what they are and the other racist will have their eyes averted from the real problems this would cause just like the zombie masters want.

Frankly it would frighten me because the Federal Mafia will try to, and succeed in, ceasing even more power so that "This Never Happens Again" essentially resulting in some form of national ID card/chip/biometric/666 tattoo or what ever you want to call it.

That's just one problem.

One potential is if there is a law that causes law created under his regime to become immediately invalid, or even worse, retroactively invalid causing massive lawsuits. Hooray the patriot act expired because his extension is invalid, BOOO now everyone that suffered an indignity because of the enforcement of an invalid law now has a potential law suit.

[Vater Araignee]

So has anyone actually given the certificate of live birth a look?

I don't mean just read it, I mean looook at it.

I was immediately struck by 2 things that are wrong with it.

[Destroit]

So has anyone actually given the certificate of live birth a look?

I don't mean just read it, I mean looook at it.

I was immediately struck by 2 things that are wrong with it.

What two things?

What two things?

[Destroit]

So has anyone actually given the certificate of live birth a look?

I don't mean just read it, I mean looook at it.

I was immediately struck by 2 things that are wrong with it.

What two things?

What two things?

[Vater Araignee]

First, if you zoom it out so that the entire thing fits on the screen you will notice that it is two pieces. A surround with the state registrars signature certifying it as valid and the main body IE the info.

It is blatantly obvious that it is two pieces and cant be explained away by something like scanning error.

The main body is a slightly different color to the naked eye, there is a bevel on the right hand side of the main body.

Second, no state seal.

Actually reading the thing.

I noticed on the time of birth the letter M and the period that follows it are of an entirely different font than the rest of the M's and periods. Remember they used type writers back then and the fonts don't change unless you replace the strike arms. Why replace two arms just to use them once and switch them back? But then again I can easily explain that away just by assuming that the m. is preprinted.

Why is his fathers race listed as African? Back then he would have been listed as Colored or Negro possibly Negroid if the hospital was trying to be PC.

It doesn't have length or weight on it. I can conceive that they didn't give a crap in Hawaii back then but my father was born in Michigan during 49 and that info is on it and my mother in law was born in but fuck Tennessee during the 40 and that info is on there. In my opinion if some hick town hospital in the middle of nowhere Tennessee thinks the info is important then Hawaii must have been run by fucktards of the lowest grade in the 60's. Yeah, sounds about right.

Edited April 29, 2011 by Vater Araignee

[phee]

I have heard the earth might actually be flat.

[Vater Araignee]

I have heard the earth might actually be flat.

And I have seen proof that it is not.

Your point?

[phee]

And I have seen proof that it is not.

Your point?

The point being that some folks no matter how much proof is right in front of them will still not budge... inductive verses deductive reasoning. If a person has already decided the Obama is not native born, it does not matter how much proof is right in front of them... they will still believe it no matter what, that will not change.

It's like arguing with a creationist, no matter how much evidence is right in front of them disproving their claim they will continue to believe what they wish.

In the case of some with the "birther" argument.... they decided a long time ago that Obama was not born here and seek only to find facts that support their belief and ignore everything else.

vs. say a more scientific approach in which you look at the facts you have and shape a theory/hypothesis based on what is there... not struggle to find facts to support something you have already made up your mind about.