question for conservatives.

[phee]

With the Caucuses all but finished now, just wondering what you people thought of the likely choices this year.... Views on gay marriage, economy, religion, war, etc...

[DJ Nocker]

With the Caucuses all but finished now, just wondering what you people thought of the likely choices this year.... Views on gay marriage, economy, religion, war, etc...

You can be a racist, a fag, a zealot, a warmonger, or a hippie. I personally dont care, as long as you dont push it on others. People are allowed to state there opinion, but dont preach. People are allowed to be who they want to be, Negative or postive in nature.

[candyman]

Just...not Obama...please...

I was just amazed at how everyone thought he would be SO different from every other politician but then OOOPS! Yeah, just another jackass with the only difference being he was younger and someone turned the contrast knob on him when he was born...and that makes him better how? Sure I do agree with some of the things he did and I don't like others which means that he is EXACTLY like every other jackass we have had in office. Some parts good, some parts fuckup, and other parts will not be known because they never happened for one reason or another. NOTHING CHANGED! So by the power vested in me by the almighty internet I will seriously verbally kill anyone that says the word change or talks about it when referring to a candidate.

Other than that I don't care about religion unless they are assholes which every religion AND non-religion have. War, it happens and although I am in the Army I really don't like it however I do see that it does have its place and can accomplish things...depending on how to do it. Gay marriage I don't care about...meaning fine but do we really need to do all that while the economy just sits there? You know that no matter what gay marriage will start a long battle and you also know that the economy is an impatient drama queen that will fuck us all. So...not to sound like I am totally against it but can you wait to get married until we figure out what our economic future looks like? I mean at least wait for the smart math people to either go "OH SHIT!" or "YAY!" before you begin your quest for expensive rings and a decadent hotel room in which to do the nasty after the vows are said.

Also another issue needs to be dealt with...ethanol...it sucks donkey balls, is actually worse for the environment than regular gas, gets worse fuel economy, and is also hurting farmers and is driving up the price for both gasoline and corn which in turn is leading to higher food prices and less food shipped out to the needy. So could the government please stop funding it?

[Troy Spiral (13)]

You can be a racist, a fag, a zealot, a warmonger, or a hippie. I personally dont care, as long as you dont push it on others. People are allowed to state there opinion, but dont preach. People are allowed to be who they want to be, Negative or postive in nature.

Laws are all the "tyrannical" (or just annoying when the law is minor) majority (or powerful) preaching their beliefs on the minority and are needed for society to run. As cool as it sounds, anarchy just doesn't work.

If the belief is "your going to hell if you dont do ABC and its my god given duty to preach the good word" then, if you dont preach, I its a failure as a human as they dont care enough to push this belief on me, despite how much it might "annoy" me, if my son is going to fry FOREVER, yet it irritates him for 50 years having to listen to me preach? (don't have a son and don't belive this, but it is a common belief). They should be trying to annoy me 24/7 or as much is realistic. I have a sort of reluctant respect for hardcore fundamentalists of several sorts, because at least they are willing to put their money where their mouth is so to speak. Even though in the end I dont LIKE it, at least I can after contemplation respect the fact that they aren't hypocritical (at least in that sense.)

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Just...not Obama...please...

I was just amazed at how everyone thought he would be SO different from every other politician but then OOOPS! Yeah, just another jackass with the only difference being he was younger and someone turned the contrast knob on him when he was born...and that makes him better how? Sure I do agree with some of the things he did and I don't like others which means that he is EXACTLY like every other jackass we have had in office. Some parts good, some parts fuckup, and other parts will not be known because they never happened for one reason or another. NOTHING CHANGED! So by the power vested in me by the almighty internet I will seriously verbally kill anyone that says the word change or talks about it when referring to a candidate.

Other than that I don't care about religion unless they are assholes which every religion AND non-religion have. War, it happens and although I am in the Army I really don't like it however I do see that it does have its place and can accomplish things...depending on how to do it. Gay marriage I don't care about...meaning fine but do we really need to do all that while the economy just sits there? You know that no matter what gay marriage will start a long battle and you also know that the economy is an impatient drama queen that will fuck us all. So...not to sound like I am totally against it but can you wait to get married until we figure out what our economic future looks like? I mean at least wait for the smart math people to either go "OH SHIT!" or "YAY!" before you begin your quest for expensive rings and a decadent hotel room in which to do the nasty after the vows are said.

Also another issue needs to be dealt with...ethanol...it sucks donkey balls, is actually worse for the environment than regular gas, gets worse fuel economy, and is also hurting farmers and is driving up the price for both gasoline and corn which in turn is leading to higher food prices and less food shipped out to the needy. So could the government please stop funding it?

I think what you mean is "things still suck" but, just in a different quantitatively similar way. Life and society and politics are in a perpetually fluid state. But your right, things dont change much just based on who happens to be in office, despite the "everything will be different when I'm in charge" rhetoric that they all preach when trying to get in office. The whole thing is too large to have any gigantic impact, but there is an impact.

Inherent in religion is a worldview, which might be held by super nice people, but the worldview might be that the first sign of the return of Christ is Armageddon , which , many have interpreted as nuclear Armageddon. Someone with this belief (say the president of a nuclear power) is going to be more likely to have less of a problem triggering such a thing as no matter how bad it is, if chirst returns right after, then it was a good thing. Religion is important (if the person believing in it takes it seriously, and it isnt just the difference between plain and vanilla to them).

[DJ Nocker]

Laws are all the "tyrannical" (or just annoying when the law is minor) majority (or powerful) preaching their beliefs on the minority and are needed for society to run. As cool as it sounds, anarchy just doesn't work.

If the belief is "your going to hell if you dont do ABC and its my god given duty to preach the good word" then, if you dont preach, I its a failure as a human as they dont care enough to push this belief on me, despite how much it might "annoy" me, if my son is going to fry FOREVER, yet it irritates him for 50 years having to listen to me preach? (don't have a son and don't belive this, but it is a common belief). They should be trying to annoy me 24/7 or as much is realistic. I have a sort of reluctant respect for hardcore fundamentalists of several sorts, because at least they are willing to put their money where their mouth is so to speak. Even though in the end I dont LIKE it, at least I can after contemplation respect the fact that they aren't hypocritical (at least in that sense.)

I didnt say anything about anarchy, read my post.

[n0Mad]

I didnt say anything about anarchy, read my post.

Sure you did. I've highlighted the pertinent parts:

You can be a racist, a fag, a zealot, a warmonger, or a hippie. I personally dont care, as long as you dont push it on others. People are allowed to state there opinion, but dont preach. People are allowed to be who they want to be, Negative or postive in nature.

I know you speak in the daVinci Code.

[DJ Nocker]

Sure you did. I've highlighted the pertinent parts:

I know you speak in the daVinci Code.

LoL....You got me all figured out, must be because you play White Wolf >_<

[Vater Araignee]

it is 100% bull shit that doesn't even matter because as is the norm, he who is wanted will get the position over he who is elected.

[candyman]

Well...at least we can worry about this stuff...unlike Iraq, Iran, everywhere around Israel...

Oh yeah and the country of Truman Show...I mean North Korea...

Edited January 5, 2012 by candyman

[creatureofthenyte]

The caucuses are nowhere near finished. There has been only one; Iowa. I know war, religion, abortion, and gay rights are all important issues, but I think the focal point should be jobs and the economy, and deficit reduction initially.

Edited January 5, 2012 by creatureofthenyte

[Vater Araignee]

Well...at least we can worry about this stuff...unlike Iraq, Iran, everywhere around Israel...

Oh yeah and the country of Truman Show...I mean North Korea...

You can worry in those places, just not out in the open.

But lets not forget we have ever increasing 1st violating laws with not one but two presidents who verbally spit on the constitution and few give a shit so unless something wakes the zombies up we will keep going down hill.

But on a positive note I found a local supplier of sodium hydroxide who also refuses to take credit transactions. Now I can unclog my drains without retching and make my own soap again.

That is till they decide that soap making and drain unclogging is illegal without a license.

Edited January 5, 2012 by Vater Araignee

[candyman]

We need to go back to the stances that we had back before WW1 and WW2. Close up shop and work on the home...if there is war we can loan shit out and just protect ourselves unless drawn in by something big. By loan shit out I mean they WILL repay us for the aid. It used to be a big money maker manufacturing things to help those civilized Europeans kill each other.

It's not really even an immigration issue but...with open borders and such it is hard to take stock considering the insane violence in towns on the border. It's issues like people fearing for their families living in those towns that need attention...little things that all build up to a bigger problem.

[Fierce Critter]

We need to go back to the stances that we had back before WW1 and WW2. Close up shop and work on the home...

Me = liberal

And I find this statement oddly comforting, common sensical, and fascinating.

I would have no idea what that would actually entail. But the thought of saying "fuck the world's problems" and just concentrating on everything solely within our borders seems like it would help get so much more done.

Of course, I am admittedly naive to the way the world goes 'round politically, and probably much too idealistic.

[Vater Araignee]

We need to go back to the stances that we had back before WW1 and WW2. Close up shop and work on the home...if there is war we can loan shit out and just protect ourselves unless drawn in by something big. By loan shit out I mean they WILL repay us for the aid. It used to be a big money maker manufacturing things to help those civilized Europeans kill each other.

It's not really even an immigration issue but...with open borders and such it is hard to take stock considering the insane violence in towns on the border. It's issues like people fearing for their families living in those towns that need attention...little things that all build up to a bigger problem.

Yup, back when a person could actually pull themselves up by their boot straps. Especially when one considers business where not so successful at lobbying to get restrictions in place to keep the little guy from getting a slice.

[candyman]

Yup, back when a person could actually pull themselves up by their boot straps. Especially when one considers business where not so successful at lobbying to get restrictions in place to keep the little guy from getting a slice.

The only problem is that BOTH sides are not going to like what it means. A strong military going by the "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far," idea would need some work, immigration would need to be tightened, we would have to refocus our efforts in exports which would really pressure our crappy auto industry, the move might just kill ethanol if we do it right, and a few other things that I don't remember off the top of my head. The ethanol would die, hopefully, because small farms would make a comeback...and to do that you would need to kill the insane taxes put on farms for NOT giving up their corn or grain for ethanol.

Obviously the ethanol issue is another point I would like them to take up. It sucks so much and is really a negative drain on...well just everything. It is hurting farms and small businesses like local grain providers and is also driving small farms out especially dairy farms that need to grow corn for their cattle feed. The state and federal government both tax my friends farm because they use all their corn for feed and won't give it up to ethanol. Each year the taxes rise and they are really struggling now just to keep their cows fed enough to milk because of how much they have had to give up. Small farms are the shit...they need to come back too.

[Vater Araignee]

The only problem is that BOTH sides are not going to like what it means. A strong military going by the "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far," idea would need some work, immigration would need to be tightened, we would have to refocus our efforts in exports which would really pressure our crappy auto industry, the move might just kill ethanol if we do it right, and a few other things that I don't remember off the top of my head. The ethanol would die, hopefully, because small farms would make a comeback...and to do that you would need to kill the insane taxes put on farms for NOT giving up their corn or grain for ethanol.

Obviously the ethanol issue is another point I would like them to take up. It sucks so much and is really a negative drain on...well just everything. It is hurting farms and small businesses like local grain providers and is also driving small farms out especially dairy farms that need to grow corn for their cattle feed. The state and federal government both tax my friends farm because they use all their corn for feed and won't give it up to ethanol. Each year the taxes rise and they are really struggling now just to keep their cows fed enough to milk because of how much they have had to give up. Small farms are the shit...they need to come back too.

I wrote a book about the problems with ethanol and their solutions but then decided to try to over simply it.

Ethanol can work but only with farmers within 75 miles of a solar/wind powered refinery and distribution points within 250 miles of the refinery and! Here is the big one, AND ethanol is not the only fuel production of the refinery.

Another problem is the crop used, it needs to be industrial hemp. In Michigan we could produce a surplus of fuel with an actual energy gain just using 33% of our fields per year. Now when you consider that proper in farm land management you let a field recoup for at least a year after every 2 by planting a non crop that replenishes the soil (instead of injecting chemical fertilizer and what not) and now add that to the fact the industrial hemp is one of the best plants for this and it has 3 grow seasons in Michigan. First you make biodiesel from it then ethanol and get a net energy gain after about 20 years.

[candyman]

I wrote a book about the problems with ethanol and their solutions but then decided to try to over simply it.

Ethanol can work but only with farmers within 75 miles of a solar/wind powered refinery and distribution points within 250 miles of the refinery and! Here is the big one, AND ethanol is not the only fuel production of the refinery.

Another problem is the crop used, it needs to be industrial hemp. In Michigan we could produce a surplus of fuel with an actual energy gain just using 33% of our fields per year. Now when you consider that proper in farm land management you let a field recoup for at least a year after every 2 by planting a non crop that replenishes the soil (instead of injecting chemical fertilizer and what not) and now add that to the fact the industrial hemp is one of the best plants for this and it has 3 grow seasons in Michigan. First you make biodiesel from it then ethanol and get a net energy gain after about 20 years.

Biodiesel is a far superior fuel pretty much all around. It could also be a byproduct of cleaning up emissions from power plants which people think would be a stupid idea so they won't even help fund it. Ethanol could be used but the vehicles actually need to be made to run ethanol...which basically means a whole new engine setup for vehicles including all new electronics...none of the vehicles now are set up right.

You are right though. The reason I hate these energy solutions they are using is that they are using them irresponsibly and will destroy them. Wind farms and such will have maximized gains if used small scale. This fuel shit also needs to be localized and specialized. We have invested too much into a few things at huge levels and are not even close to using them to their full potential. I mean seriously if we are in such a "green" kick right now how come there are thousands of old power producing damns that are still shut down? They are everywhere and have only been maintained so as not to fall apart. Every little but helps...high taxes, shutting out whole industries at once, and setting up whole new and for the most part untested ones on a large scale,..well that will just ruin us.

The way people are handling ethanol had killed crop rotation...what is green about that again? Well, still nothing...worst energy "solution" ever!

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I didnt say anything about anarchy, read my post.

I did read it, no shock. I've you know, done this message board thing once or twice before. I didnt really think you were talking about "real anarchy" it just used that term to save time. Your post implies "personal freedom" which, taken to its extreme is anarchy, which I know you didn't mean, but , trying to enforce (or not enforce) it / live by it is impossible in a strict sense.

[Vater Araignee]

I did read it, no shock. I've you know, done this message board thing once or twice before. I didnt really think you were talking about "real anarchy" it just used that term to save time. Your post implies "personal freedom" which, taken to its extreme is anarchy, which I know you didn't mean, but , trying to enforce (or not enforce) it / live by it is impossible in a strict sense.

Do you think true is libertarianism anarchy? Just asking because his post seemed like it could be thrown onto an leftist libertarian board and not cause a stir. Though it could also be that when forced to interpret someone I try to give a positive spin if I don't know their personality. However in this case labeling it as leftist libertarian is only slightly better than anarchistic but leaps and bounds better than Republicrats or Demapublicans.

Heroin Addict: A negative personality trait.

Current social climate: Lock 'em up and throw away the key, no get them help, no even better, do both and line someone "who only gives a shit if they are making money's" pocket.

Anarchy: Let them do what they want until they OD or someone gets pissed and kills them.

Libertarianism: If they are only harming themselves then let them do what they want. Give them help if they ask for it. Make make the penalties for crimes committed by users harsher than if they where not using.

See? Libertarianism allows for negative personality traits without allowing anarchy to reign.