If you think you have rights

[Soulrev]

Think again.

So a little over a week ago my friend was drinking and driving. Stupid move. But anyway, so as to not implicate himself (and as per the 5th amendment) he refused to take a breathalizer. So, because of that, and only because of that, they have also stripped his 4th amendment rights, making him wear an alcohol bracelet that detects and reports the presence of alcohol, and he has to submit to a drug test.

First off, what happened to innocent until proven guilty? He hasn't even been convicted of a crime yet (only been to court for an arraignment) and he has to wear this shit and take a drug test?

They also suspended his driver's license. Now unfortunately my buddy doesn't have the money to pay for a decent attorney to fight this, so like the rest of us Americans who are barely scraping by, he is subject to the great almighty and powerful Government's discretion.

Look, I'm all for cracking down on drinking and driving. It's terrible. My friend is lucky to be alive and it happened near my house so I was the one who pulled him from the car after I heard the crash, to make sure he was still alive.. He's lucky he didn't kill himself or somebody else.

So this is just a heads up, especially if any of you folks decide to drink in Indiana, stay the fuck off the roads, cuz you have NO RIGHTS HERE.

Damn this country is going to hell in a hand basket, quickly.

[TronRP]

No offense buddy, and please don't take this the wrong way, but it is because of this same type of incident that caused me to have to take a $10,000 cut in annual salary and why I'm currently doing Home Care Provider services for a now disabled family member who suffer massive blunt force trauma and bone dislocation accompanied with various internal injuries 11 years ago. But, unlike your friend, because this guy was a multi-millionaire, he never served one day in jail, barely had a slap on the wrist, and was back on the road to do this again to someone else. Meanwhile, we pay ongoing medical bills.

It took only a matter of seconds for this guy to wipe out two vehicles at a red light (not including his own due to the fact he was driving in a reinforced fronted Dodge Durango) and I almost lost 2 sisters and my sister's father-in-law that day because the driver was drunk and flying high. Also, to deny a breathalyzer automatically implicates guilt on the driver's behalf.

So dude, I'm sorry about your friend, but really, "Damn this country is going to hell in a hand basket, quickly."? In our case, the lawyers (2 different buddy firms) stole all the settlement money and the insurance company barely wants to honor the claim. We need over $11,000 in handicap access renovations and can't afford to hire assistance for the build, thus, enter me.

But I guess it's all in how you look at it...because I have no love for that rich junkie...

[Soulrev]

No, I totally understand where you're coming from. I have no compassion for drunk drivers myself, he did it to himself, my point being simply that even though he was in the wrong in this, I think it's ridiculous that none of our rights mean anything anymore. I'm sure he's not going to do it again, he's told me himself he feels like a complete idiot. But still, there's processes we've put in place, in case someone IS innocent, to protect them from being convicted for something they didn't do. Also, in the eyes of the law, he's still supposed to be "innocent until proven guilty" - which he will be, but simply refusing to submit to a breathalizer means he loses 2 of his rights off the bat, no questions asked? I think that's wrong. And I think we can all say that law enforcement has gotten a little out of hand in dealing with citizens these days.

By and far I hate drunk driving. Lost too many friends/family because of it. I really hope my friend learned a lesson, and this is his first time (getting caught) drinking and driving..

[TronRP]

Granted you're in Indiana and I'm in Michigan, I think I'm confused. You say, "he was in the wrong"...but didn't he lose his rights at that point? Unless the point I'm missing is although "he was in the wrong", he has the right to legally try to get over on the disliked governmental implemented system to try to prove innocence to then be found guilty only then to be convinced of the crime he was already "in the wrong" about?

Yes I must admit, I have been a bit dense when it comes to how and why people plead for their amendment rights since I have been the victim of racial profiling my entire life...I've never had the right to plead anything even when I was pulled over for looking like a black man under suspicion of a crime and the time when I was frisked just for having a vehicle that looked the same as one that was used in a robbery (with the exception of the fact that that car had a cracked windshield and mine didn't).

It is at the point that all I have to do is drive through the wrong neighborhood at the wrong hour and I'm tailed by the boys in blue until I am out of the area. Being constitutionally considered only 3/5 a person, until the 1990's, I typically find a certain genera of individuals can even began to claim, or plead, for certain rights in this country.

[kat (1)]

My kid's dad was killed by a drunk driver. .his own friend...a moment of stupidity, a city bus and a patch of ice, and all of a sudden, two people dead. One was his own cousin. I became a single mom with a 8 week old baby at 17 that night., a child lost her dad and as a result will never know what having a father will be like. I get what your saying about rights but there are far too many victims and I think that law was designed to protect their rights. Claude (the driver) lives with this everyday. He can't even look me in the face. We've talked about it as I forgiven him but his head's a mess. Please, tell your friend this is a blessing in disguise, hon. It could have been worse.

[LadyKay]

The reality is that you are guilty until you can prove your innocent. We like to think it is not so but that is not how it works in the real world. You think it is bad in crimal court. Just wait to see what they do to you in family court. Where the other side is allowd to make up anything they want about you then you have to spend the time and money trying to prove yourself innocent. People never realize this crap until it happens to them or someone close to them.

[kat (1)]

Yes, y

The reality is that you are guilty until you can prove your innocent. We like to think it is not so but that is not how it works in the real world. You think it is bad in crimal court. Just wait to see what they do to you in family court. Where the other side is allowd to make up anything they want about you then you have to spend the time and money trying to prove yourself innocent. People never realize this crap until it happens to them or someone close to them.

e

The reality is that you are guilty until you can prove your innocent. We like to think it is not so but that is not how it works in the real world. You think it is bad in crimal court. Just wait to see what they do to you in family court. Where the other side is allowd to make up anything they want about you then you have to spend the time and money trying to prove yourself innocent. People never realize this crap until it happens to them or someone close to them.

Yes, yes, a zillion times nodding in agreement. I feel that, girl.

[Trene4000]

Hi. I'm one of the survivors. TronRP is my sister.

I remember when the breathalyzer law was instituted. At first it was voluntary but too many people were turning it down but not passing the "walk this line" test. In order to keep people from driving off in the same condition, victims petitioned for for stricter laws regarding the breathalyzer tests, thus refusal to take one resulted in automatic conviction. Later it was repealed to license suspension and tracking. Too many "important" people were being affected. Your friend basically got off with a slap on the wrist. I have no compassion for anyone who deliberately ingests poison then gets behind the wheel of a two ton machine filled with explosive material and proceeds to plow down the road without any consideration for those around them.

I know I sound bitter but hey, in one accident, I suffered three concussions, hyper extension and contortion of the spine, whiplash, tearing of the uterus, damaged rotator cuff, jaw dislocation, ocular damage, and numerous other painful injuries due to a repeat offender. I have no love for people who threaten others lives in that manner.

I sincerely hope your friend is humiliated enough to never risk doing such a dangerous thing again.

Wow! Its amazing the junk trapped in long term memory that can be easily recalled.

[Soulrev]

Yeah, I understand that and I agree completely. He tells me he's not going to do it again, sort of a wake up call for him. My problem is just with the justice system in general. Like LadyKay said they say you are innocent until proven guilty but you are not. There have been instances with police abusing this power just to harass people, and that's unfortunate. I'm not saying laws on DUI and OWI are too strict, because there should be serious consequences for doing so. In my opinion I would have no problem if they banned alcohol, it's destroyed a lot of lives in my family through alcoholism or dui accidents, etc.

Anyway, my main point is that every day we are losing more and more of our basic constitutional rights. Free speech zones, relentless background checks from employers, landlords, etc (they can go back further than 7 years now, which, if it's not a violent or sex crime, I think is wrong especially having a background myself that still follows me to this day, prevents me from getting a decent job and a decent place to raise my son even though I turned my life around)

Then you have the throttle on 2nd amendment rights that are slowly going away. 4th amendment rights gone with the patriot act, and it goes on and on.

I can relate to the being harassed for being the wrong color. I have a lot of friends on the South Side of Chicago, and I can't tell you how many times, but at least 10 times over the past 3 or 4 years, I have been pulled over by the Chicago police, yanked out of my car, handcuffed, searched, and had my vehicle searched, because I was a white boy in a black neighborhood, so I MUST be there buying drugs.. Chicago is one of the worst places in the country for constitutional rights, they don't give a crap about you or your rights.

My friend's case is just one example of many (even though he is in fact guilty) but being an alcohol related incident, what gives the state the right to issue a drug test, as well? There are many stories I can link to on people being harassed at INTERNAL checkpoints in Texas and Arizona (look it up, they DO exist). In fact one woman was ordered, (with no probable cause) by an officer at one of these checkpoints, to submit to a breathalyzer AND draw blood for a drug test (Yes, this really happened). Now there are so many things wrong with this. Internal checkpoints? Alex Jones from Infowars has video of how they operate. He drove through one with his family in an RV, and the officers kept questioning him if he was a legal United States citizen, then continues to ask if he's carrying anything illegal in the vehicle, drugs, weapons, etc. Then, they ask to search the vehicle, which Alex of course utilizes his 4th amendment right and denies the search.

Things are getting out of hand in this country and it is turning into a police state. They are militarizing our police forces and even giving them MRAPs (Mine Resistant Ambush Protected) vehicles used in Afghanistan and Iraq. In case you haven't noticed, most police these days look like soldiers, wearing their vests outside their uniforms, armed to the teeth wearing combat boots with their pants bloused into them. Indiana has also recently passed a law saying police may issu "no-knock" warrants, in which they can raid your home like we did in the Army in Iraq, with teams of 5 cops armed with M-4's and other various tactical weapons. There have been plenty of screw ups here in Indiana where they've raided the wrong house, shot innocent people, etc.

So yeah, while I agree people who drink and drive deserve to be punished, my main point here was that, you don't have hardly any rights here anymore and unless people take a stand and say something, they will go away completely.

[TronRP]

I find it interesting the way you describe these events with such impact in conjunction to the Constitution and how it supports individual rights. I had always heard of people who thought and spoke this way, just never actually knew one for myself...Hello...

Not to sound funny, but what you've describe is a Friday night coupled with a weekend trip.

Well, I hope someone can benefit from the saving of these Constitutional rights that are being fought so hard for. It would be interesting to know what the quality of life is supposed to be like with them fully instated.

...granted there would be no need to fight for the reinstating of the "Three-Fifths Compromise"...

[Soulrev]

I find it interesting the way you describe these events with such impact in conjunction to the Constitution and how it supports individual rights. I had always heard of people who thought and spoke this way, just never actually knew one for myself...Hello...

Not to sound funny, but what you've describe is a Friday night coupled with a weekend trip.

Well, I hope someone can benefit from the saving of these Constitutional rights that are being fought so hard for. It would be interesting to know what the quality of life is supposed to be like with them fully instated.

...granted there would be no need to fight for the reinstating of the "Three-Fifths Compromise"...

Yeah I understand where you're coming from. I guess it's more of where we live. I live in rural (I mean cornfields) Indiana so out here things are a little different. Once you go into the big towns and cities though, that's where the rights start to disappear. But, even out here in middle-of-nowhere hickville, rights are going away. It's just crazy how much things have changed since I was a child, and especially after 9/11. I could get into a whole rant about the patriot act and all that and how it's not meant to stop terrorists, it's meant to control the citizens... But I won't go into that right now. I'll say this, though. The TSA has admitted they haven't caught any terrorists since they started sticking their hands down our pants and full body scanning.. So what are we submitting everyone to these privacy invasions for? Control. Just like the internal checkpoints.

I mean yeah from what I know about Chicago and how it is out there, spending a lot of time there myself, I could see how you wouldn't even be used to excersizing your constitutional rights, because for anyone that lives in a major city like that, I'd imagine you never knew what it was like to actually have rights. See, if I get pulled over in Indiana by a county cop or whatever, and they ask to search my car, I'm going to tell them no. In Chicago, they don't ask. As I said, they rip you out of your car, throw you in cuffs, pat you down, stick their hands down your pants, tear your car apart looking for anything they can get you for, and you can scream about rights all you want, but when it comes down to it, you're surrounded by 4 heavily armed nerds who got beat up a few too many times in high school and who are out to bully anyone they can. That's what it boils down to.