Gothic Music as a Term

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Shamelessly Cut From Ironclad Truth Bastion Wikipedia:

     

Quote

The term "gothic rock" was coined in 1967 by music critic John Stickney to describe a meeting he had with Jim Morrison in a dimly lit wine-cellar which he called "the perfect room to honor the Gothic rock of the Doors". That same year, Velvet Underground with a track like "All Tomorrow's Parties", created a kind of "mesmerizing gothic-rock masterpiece" according to music historian Kurt Loder.

In the late 1970s, the "gothic" adjective was used to describe the atmosphere of post-punk bands like Siouxsie and the Banshees, Magazine and Joy Division. In a live review about a Siouxsie and the Banshees' concert in July 1978, critic Nick Kent wrote that concerning their music, "parallels and comparisons can now be drawn with gothic rock architects like the Doors and, certainly, early Velvet Underground".

In March 1979, in his review of Magazine's second album Secondhand Daylight, Kent noted that there was "a new austere sense of authority" in the music, with a "dank neo-Gothic sound".

Later that year, the term was also used by Joy Division's manager, Tony Wilson on 15 September in an interview for the BBC TV programme's Something Else: Wilson described Joy Division as "gothic" compared to the pop mainstream, right before a live performance of the band. The term was later applied to "newer bands such as Bauhaus who had arrived in the wake of Joy Division and Siouxsie and the Banshees". Bauhaus's first single issued in 1979, "Bela Lugosi's Dead", is generally credited as the starting point of the gothic rock genre.

 

 

Odd I had  Joy Division dated AFTER Bauhaus and Siouxsie mentally.  Not that I ever did a timeline.  

I knew most all of the above but never heard the doors reference before.   

 

Myself I often point to "I am a rock" and "The Sound of Silence" by Simon and Garfunkel  and "Paint it Black" by The Rolling Stones as  totally goth  non-goth goth songs.

[Scary Guy]

Oh I remember this argument, it was fun.  It usually devolves into "Gregorian chants were the first goth music,"  followed by "cavemen banging sticks and rocks together was the first goth music."

I also like to think Black Sabbath and Alice Cooper contributed quite a bit to the sound and style.  Cooper's early stuff especially.

 

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I hope its not an argument. 

 

I think you have 

 

1. When did the term start being applied to music.

2. What do you personally think of as your definition of "gothic music". 

[Scary Guy]

I agree, those are two completely different things.  The first really isn't up for much of a debate because we can pinpoint the first time it was used https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goth_subculture#Origins_and_development

The second is completely subjective apparently.  I've always said though that being gothic is having the ability to appreciate the darker things in life.  If you can find the beauty in wilted flowers then you get it.  Goth music to me is either that feeling put into song OR music which is dark in nature and gives you that feeling (Beethoven's Moonlight Sonata is a prime example of that.  Bach's Toccata and Fugue in D Minor is another.)

You might think that they're the same thing but they aren't because people misinterpret the meaning behind music all the time.  Not to mention that the lyrics can be dark and the song can sound happy as hell, or vice versa.

An example of the first is The Velvet Underground's "Who Loves the Sun?" which with different lyrics would be a pretty happy tune.  Or The Cure's "Lullaby" which doesn't really sound that bad until you hear the lyrics.  I don't know, maybe neither are particularly happy tunes taken as instrumentals.

Most people would probably call this metal.  To me it's the gothiest thing ever though.

 

To me it's not a genre of music, it's bigger than that.  I suppose for most it's more of a "I'll know it when I see it" sort of thing though and they don't dig too deep.

[Destroit]

Oh man...this debate again.  Fun fact, I actually wrote a college paper on the history of goth rock and industrial (and the differences) about a thousand years ago.  Got an A+ actually.

[Scary Guy]

Got a copy?  Sounds like a fun read :D