No Really - Goth & Rap

[Troy Spiral (13)]

This is sweet.

 

 

[Scary Guy]

Saw it, meh.

This is pretty dope though.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

It has a lot to do with context more than "just the facts mam". In terms of promotion (of any sort) manners evolved in part) to help.

If we want people to like our things (Events, Media whatever) and get them to check out what we like we have to try and not shit on THEIR things at least not in public, " oh well that sucks but here... come check this out." Gonna end badly for our goals over time <--- over time. (to spread the word about an event we'd like people to come to for instance)

For some this is hard, but really it's a very good basic social skill. One that is well mastered.

Me I'm a sarcastic politically incorrect bastard... but in the right context or at least that's the goal. Alienating our key people just doesn't keep society moving well nor get it moving the way we'd like it to when its time to try and create change. People have memories (not that they are always very accurate).

Hey everybody I'm running this event come to it please! (but wait half of them I've already alienated.. shit.. this isn't going to work as well as I thought)... That spills over into our associates too, If I want someone to back me on something, but half the people that know of me know me as a jerk (as an example) it reflects badly on the people backing me, not just me. So If i ask for help, and my reputation is mixed, the help i'm going to get is going to be even worse than mixed. (Not that we can always help it)

Now if they think badly of me for no real reason.. that's on them. But basic manners is just an evolved concept and one thing it does is differentiate unreasonable dislike from reasonable dislike.

Want someone to help with something? Shit on what they want a bunch (not that you did that really just an exaggerated example to make a point) then say HEY come to this thing I'm doing it's cool, come! Tell your friends! (unlikely).

[Scary Guy]

I doubt she's coming out to anything we do anyway.  I'm also not a fan of Emminem and there are so many better artists she could have covered.  I'd like to see her do Blondie's "Rapture" (some of the first rap ever by a white chick)

 

Anyway, I'm allowed not to like things, and voice that opinion.  People either appreciate me for my honesty or steer clear.  I'm not going to put on a fake facade just to get friends and patrons out to my events.

[Class-Punk]

On 5/29/2016 at 0:48 AM, Troy Spiral said:

It has a lot to do with context more than "just the facts mam". In terms of promotion (of any sort) manners evolved in part) to help.

If we want people to like our things (Events, Media whatever) and get them to check out what we like we have to try and not shit on THEIR things at least not in public, " oh well that sucks but here... come check this out." Gonna end badly for our goals over time <--- over time. (to spread the word about an event we'd like people to come to for instance)

For some this is hard, but really it's a very good basic social skill. One that is well mastered.

Me I'm a sarcastic politically incorrect bastard... but in the right context or at least that's the goal. Alienating our key people just doesn't keep society moving well nor get it moving the way we'd like it to when its time to try and create change. People have memories (not that they are always very accurate).

Hey everybody I'm running this event come to it please! (but wait half of them I've already alienated.. shit.. this isn't going to work as well as I thought)... That spills over into our associates too, If I want someone to back me on something, but half the people that know of me know me as a jerk (as an example) it reflects badly on the people backing me, not just me. So If i ask for help, and my reputation is mixed, the help i'm going to get is going to be even worse than mixed. (Not that we can always help it)

Now if they think badly of me for no real reason.. that's on them. But basic manners is just an evolved concept and one thing it does is differentiate unreasonable dislike from reasonable dislike.

Want someone to help with something? Shit on what they want a bunch (not that you did that really just an exaggerated example to make a point) then say HEY come to this thing I'm doing it's cool, come! Tell your friends! (unlikely).

That video has over a million views.  And some other gothic dressed youtubers have videos with over a million views.  I remember when that community was a lot smaller.  Its weird how its taking off, which I suppose is good for normalizing goth.  But one thing that remains is that even with the increase in goth youtubers, most goth videos on youtube are boring content, in my opinion.

One of my mottos in life is "pretty = nothing".  I can understand how politeness means bigger, better community, and is also a huge deal for business that people owning bars and nightclubs need to get through their giant, female-centric heads.  But the punk aspect of gothic culture, or the willingness to explore fringe ideas or create new ones that can go along with it, seems like its been consumed by the political left, as opposed to a more individual or anti-establishment position aligning with punk.  In goth at present, there's either too much politeness to the point that individual thought is stamped out, like the political left, or impoliteness without any substance behind it.  The Necto crowd has a lot of edgy young people that fall the latter category, which is to also say they are probably edgy-dressed proponents of the present leftist establishment, rather than contrarians who oppose the problems of established societal power like original punks and all of their similar offshoots of people, or more ideally, evidence-based, fallacy avoiding thinkers, who are intellectual punks; and I think this leads to both a musical drought and intellectual drought, both being connected to each other.  

I'm not trying to argue for either side of the coin because I'm not sure I can, but just lay out cause and effect.  I am often bored with gothic culture.  But the majority of goth youtubers are women, which goes along with the focus online and offline in goth being so heavily geared towards fashion, and women have more in-group preference than men.  So it is what it is, you can't convince an unreasonable group with reason, and the majority of human beings are, due to more focus on short term survival than long term survival, unreasonable.  However, you'd probably get this place more traffic by appealing to women more, if the youtube data mirrors real life.

Edited June 22, 2016 by Class-Punk

[Scary Guy]

On 6/22/2016 at 11:30 AM, Class-Punk said:

That video has over a million views.  And some other gothic dressed youtubers have videos with over a million views.  I remember when that community was a lot smaller.  Its weird how its taking off, which I suppose is good for normalizing goth.  But one thing that remains is that even with the increase in goth youtubers, most goth videos on youtube are boring content, in my opinion.

One of my mottos in life is "pretty = nothing".  I can understand how politeness means bigger, better community, and is also a huge deal for business that people owning bars and nightclubs need to get through their giant, female-centric heads.  But the punk aspect of gothic culture, or the willingness to explore fringe ideas or create new ones that can go along with it, seems like its been consumed by the political left, as opposed to a more individual or anti-establishment position aligning with punk.  In goth at present, there's either too much politeness to the point that individual thought is stamped out, like the political left, or impoliteness without any substance behind it.  The Necto crowd has a lot of edgy young people that fall the latter category, which is to also say they are probably edgy-dressed proponents of the present leftist establishment, rather than contrarians who oppose the problems of established societal power like original punks and all of their similar offshoots of people, or more ideally, evidence-based, fallacy avoiding thinkers, who are intellectual punks; and I think this leads to both a musical drought and intellectual drought, both being connected to each other.  

I'm not trying to argue for either side of the coin because I'm not sure I can, but just lay out cause and effect.  I am often bored with gothic culture.  But the majority of goth youtubers are women, which goes along with the focus online and offline in goth being so heavily geared towards fashion, and women have more in-group preference than men.  So it is what it is, you can't convince an unreasonable group with reason, and the majority of human beings are, due to more focus on short term survival than long term survival, unreasonable.  However, you'd probably get this place more traffic by appealing to women more, if the youtube data mirrors real life.

Off topic, but I like it.

Anyway appealing to more women is great, although it feels like a bit of an even mix.  What I want to avoid is the whole "safe space" thing where ideas are crushed rather than allowed to flow freely.  Including disagreements and whatnot (within reason of course, none of us want the flame wars of the old DCC.C.)

I feel as if we curate our own walled gardens, filtering out everything we dislike and only allowing that which is approved to stay, completely forgetting that some conflict helps to make us great.

I think even drama to a certain extent can be good for the board.  Hell that used to be the motto and we used to get a shit-ton of users.  Somewhere along the way though things changed and people moved on.  I blame a combination of a few things.

Maybe it will get back to the size it was eventually, but for now I'm enjoying our smallish community.

Anyway...

 

[Class-Punk]

19 hours ago, Scary Guy said:

Off topic, but I like it.

Anyway appealing to more women is great, although it feels like a bit of an even mix.  What I want to avoid is the whole "safe space" thing where ideas are crushed rather than allowed to flow freely.  Including disagreements and whatnot (within reason of course, none of us want the flame wars of the old DCC.C.)

I feel as if we curate our own walled gardens, filtering out everything we dislike and only allowing that which is approved to stay, completely forgetting that some conflict helps to make us great.

I think even drama to a certain extent can be good for the board.  Hell that used to be the motto and we used to get a shit-ton of users.  Somewhere along the way though things changed and people moved on.  I blame a combination of a few things.

Maybe it will get back to the size it was eventually, but for now I'm enjoying our smallish community.

Thanks.  The safe space thing is why I only post on reddit once in awhile with throwaways, and don't have a dedicated account there anymore.  My opinions were not well received.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Class-Punk

[Troy Spiral (13)]

8 hours ago, Class-Punk said:

Thanks.  The safe space thing is why I only post on reddit once in awhile with throwaways, and don't have a dedicated account there anymore.  My opinions were not well received.

It's a really hard balance to strike and very few ever agree on were that should be.

Places like FB I think are too sanitized  (and also really don't even want to be places for any real discussion)

The old DCC (and the old YouTube) were way to far to the 'anything goes' side. Thus...in that scenario the scum rises to the top.

Reddit and the like I usually just lurk on but the are some really in the middle, but can quickly go south into the bad territory.

DGN is , intentionally leaning toward the safer side, but we should be able to make unpopular options and not get attacked for it.

The hard part comes when an opinion is so offensive that it triggers a series of even more offensive statements, which can mean the 'just an opinion' is more than that, pragmaticly. (Hasn't happened here in a long time) Or a long, long history of always being semi rude, but not actually directly attacking anyone, it gets tangled. But we try. 

The social observations about the makeup of the internet were interesting.... Typing this on my phone so I have to stop before my fingers fall off. Lol

 

 

 

 

[sekhmet2002]

Going back to the original post... I found the video amusing. I'm not the biggest Eminem fan but do enjoy quite a bit of his work.