High Political Office Talk

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Topic changed to a catch all. Figured I'd just change the title.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

If we are only talking about Trump and Hillary (which we arguably are not) but from a pragmatic standpoint it is going to be either Trump or Hillary. Not voting is just 'I'll take whatever'.

Voting for a third party has a logic to it but not any realistic chance of winning (but if the third parties get a large enough vote it sends a message).

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I really don't like Trump or Hillary but Trump being the figure we present to the world as representing the (still most powerful) country on the planet?

No. Bozo the Clown spewing out endless unprepared fabrications and just having a three ring circus demeanor seated in the highest office in the land? Should be an automatic no.

We just cant have a court jester running the country. 

I consider myself an independent in general, left leaning. But I could see a scenario were I would vote A Republican. But not this repuclican.  Not for Fred flintstone.

This doesn't even get into any issues. You just cannot have dumbo the Clown in that office no matter how much I might have issues with hillary.

Even though man influenced climate change is not a key issue for me. It's a fact, a long put to bed fact. This also disqualifies him for me. I need that office to be filled with a body that at least belives in reality.

[Trene4000]

Got my absentee ballot. Voted Hilary.

[sekhmet2002]

Probably voting for third party even though they won't win. I can always hope though. I can't see myself voting either Hillary or Trump into office.

[Scary Guy]

I almost want to vote Trump because I feel like the country deserves to be punished.  Of course I think that will happen anyway with either major party candidate winning.

No I'm a die hard libertarian and believe freedom is paramount over everything else.  Including the freedom not to vote or vote third party.  Unfortunately there are two things that make me think voting is useless.  1. we have a first past the post system rather than instant runoff voting.  Again the benefits can be seen here:

 

Second, most of the people voting are too dumb to do so properly, going with whatever society tells them without researching the candidates fully listening to whatever soundbites the news has and then going with the "lesser of two evils."

 

I really should just boycott the whole thing, but local issues are important I suppose.

[Class-Punk]

I think at this point there's no time to get enough awareness to ensure another candidate's chance apart from Hillary and Trump, and this is because of the mainstream media's stranglehold over public knowledge and opinion.  If television didn't exist and there was only the internet, with the major social media sites not being regulated, I think Bernie would've been elected, followed later with a democratic majority in congress, which would cause some positive changes in the country like cheaper college tuition and single payer healthcare.  Millennials are the biggest generational group in America now, but the stranglehold of the mainstream media and Bernie dropping out made them scattered.  So I just want to see the mainstream media destroyed, and I care more about that than the presidency.  Since totalitarian leftists are mostly running the mainstream media, the best way to agitate and discredit both the totalitarian, irrational left and the mainstream media, is with a Trump presidency.  So I'm voting Trump because I despise the media as it exists today and want to see it destroyed and replaced with journalists who are policed by the internet as a whole, which will be futuristic, more intelligent, more moral, and will benefit society possibly beyond what we could imagine.

I consider the right and the alt right stupid in their own ways, I'm not on the right or left.  I'm somewhere between socialist and libertarian, or a political relativist, or a rationalist.  But my hatred of the mainstream media is extreme.

Edited October 11, 2016 by Class-Punk

[Troy Spiral (13)]

'The masses' have always been poor voters. But in modern times the average voter has better access to information than in any previous time in history. Not that they ... we... don't still suck at it.

 

I try to be pragmatic (and bigger picture) rather than ideological(and just my personal desires).

 

For instance, I like guns and own 2 (handgun and a rifle... would like a shotgun but $$$) But if someone could make a very convincong argument that society would be better without them, I'd be open to it. (That is just an example)

Also in my shitty situation I benefit from government programs. But I have no problem with the idea of them being cut back if there is a net gain overall.

Anarchy is out. It's not realistic. Attempts at 'true freedom' are impossible. Society would be worse than mad max. Some restrictions and powerful figures always arise as they are nessisary. (I've long been libertarian leaning despite this statement)

So... I think not voting is a mistake. I've read several articles about the average non voter influences something like 4+ others to not vote also (sometimes far,far more).

All I'm sure of at the moment is.... not Trump. He is too much of a clown. I can't have a court jester in the most powerful chair in the world. A guy that I can watch talk and like every third thing he says I know isn't true, that's ridiculous.

Politicians lie. At the presidential level every last one does or they would have never have gotten that high. But typically they lie about things we don't know about. Trump is just flat wrong point after point on things that are crazy easy to fact check.

All the best presidents from Washington to Lincoln to Roslevelt were grandmaster bullshitters. Trump can't even get actual facts right.

So it's either third party to try and send a message that the two party system blows or Hillary *shudder* at least someone that can play the part of President and not make us all look like idiots right out of the gate.

[Draco1958]

I am really hating this election season.  Having to pick the lesser of 2 bad choices.  But I am scared of someone who is already checking into using nukes in the middle east.  Scared about how my influence will be over our President who personally owes multi millions of dollars to foreign countries.  Hate the idea of a President who has lied about emails.  Both candidates have questionable issues with their respective charities and fund raising.  Both candidates have given reason to question their suitability to be POTUS.  I know I will end up hearing all about blood on her hands (which is BS), the emails (no criminal act, just plain stupidity) and all the other stuff.  And when info comes out about him, all I hear is "It's just the media trying to sabotage his campaign".  I'm not saying Hillary is good, Trump is bad.  But for me I prefer the known problematic candidate over the unknown who brags that he declared bankruptcy on a casino so he wouldn't have to pay 3 construction companies the money he owed for their work causing them to go bankrupt.  Having his clothing brand made in China while saying he will bring American companies back yet not say if he will bring his company back to the US.  Owing the State Bank of Russia and the State bank of China multi millions of dollars.  How much influence will that give them over the Presidency?  Those questions are asked about Hillary and her charity receiving donations from overseas yet no one wants to ask the question about Trump.  If you do, odds are you will either get a tirade about Hillary and the questions about her or be told it's all lies by the media to discredit Trump.  Well video of Trump claiming 1. He mostly identifies as a Democrat, 2.  He is pro choice, 3. He agreed with the war in Iraq, 4. He thinks Bill and Hillary are great people and then denying ever said any of that only proves he cannot be trusted anymore than Hillary.  But willing to start a nuclear war, thinking he's convinced Mexico to pay for the wall and his facts based on many people say yet if used on him, he claims there are no sources.  Sorry but I am going for the less dangerous candidate.

[phee]

To me... it is about survival.... Hillary may turn out to be a terrible president, and in four years be ousted... we have survived bad presidents before, it sucks but we will live through it. 

 

Trump however (And no I am not talking about media and speculation) in his own words makes himself a president that increases the chances of the country falling down and not having a life alert to get back up again (Bush almost got us down that low but we lived through it).

 

Hillary is a politician, she has been in public life for 30 years and no would not be my first choice. But she has withstood about everything the media, other parties, and society has thrown at her and is still standing. Is she corrupt? Is she beholden to others? probably... which makes her as I said a politician. If she has proven anything though is she will pull through.

 

I am sorry that the 3rd parties could only pull up an ignorant dunderhead and an anti-vaccine flower child. Maybe just maybe in 4 years, we will have another choice. But for now... I have to go with what I can live with, that is Hillary.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

 

Politicians are liars, just have to get used to it. The reality of it. An 'honest politican'  is not a politican for long, not at the national level. It's always been the lesser of the evils and will continue to be probably forever.  =/

 

[kat (1)]

I'm just waiting for the truth to come out that this whole thing was set up! I mean surely we cannot be that ignorant to actually believe that this is real. I don't believe that this is a real thing.  It's like watching wrestling all the trash talk, its for show,  the drama factor.  I swear were just watching a wrestling match at this point. The whole thing has been phony I cannot believe that people don't see that.  If this isn't phony. ..if this is really where we are at in society put a bullet in my head now.

Edited October 19, 2016 by kat

[kat (1)]

Seriously. ..let me know when the house of representatives name is changed to the house of representin'.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

On 10/13/2016 at 2:19 AM, Draco1958 said:

I am really hating this election season.  Having to pick the lesser of 2 bad choices.  But I am scared of someone who is already checking into using nukes in the middle east.  Scared about how my influence will be over our President who personally owes multi millions of dollars to foreign countries.  Hate the idea of a President who has lied about emails.  Both candidates have questionable issues with their respective charities and fund raising.  Both candidates have given reason to question their suitability to be POTUS.  I know I will end up hearing all about blood on her hands (which is BS), the emails (no criminal act, just plain stupidity) and all the other stuff.  And when info comes out about him, all I hear is "It's just the media trying to sabotage his campaign".  I'm not saying Hillary is good, Trump is bad.  But for me I prefer the known problematic candidate over the unknown who brags that he declared bankruptcy on a casino so he wouldn't have to pay 3 construction companies the money he owed for their work causing them to go bankrupt.  Having his clothing brand made in China while saying he will bring American companies back yet not say if he will bring his company back to the US.  Owing the State Bank of Russia and the State bank of China multi millions of dollars.  How much influence will that give them over the Presidency?  Those questions are asked about Hillary and her charity receiving donations from overseas yet no one wants to ask the question about Trump.  If you do, odds are you will either get a tirade about Hillary and the questions about her or be told it's all lies by the media to discredit Trump.  Well video of Trump claiming 1. He mostly identifies as a Democrat, 2.  He is pro choice, 3. He agreed with the war in Iraq, 4. He thinks Bill and Hillary are great people and then denying ever said any of that only proves he cannot be trusted anymore than Hillary.  But willing to start a nuclear war, thinking he's convinced Mexico to pay for the wall and his facts based on many people say yet if used on him, he claims there are no sources.  Sorry but I am going for the less dangerous candidate.

Yeah the nukes comments he made to me were like WHAT THE FUCK.  Even if he was thinking that you dont SAY that if your the president or want to be the president.  I can say some wise ass shit like that since I'm you know...  a wise ass.  But someone that wants to be president saying something like that?  Moronic, Irresponsible... any word you want to use.  Just another "anybody but trump" thing In my mind. 

[Troy Spiral (13)]

8 hours ago, kat said:

Seriously. ..let me know when the house of representatives name is changed to the house of representin'.

Fortunately the people that ACTUALLY run the country are smart.  They don't want to live in a shitty place with shitty people, as it won't make them enough money.  At a certain point having idiots everywhere no longer makes $$ sense for even the rich.  They need at least a decent sized number of well educated people to invent things and make life at least a little better or the super rich will start to suffer too.   Most people that hold (real) power arewell educated (and always have been).  If idiocracy becomes a thing, it will still be the rich well educated that run things, with a clown as front man to keep the masses happy.  

[kat (1)]

21 minutes ago, Troy Spiral said:

Fortunately the people that ACTUALLY run the country are smart.  They don't want to live in a shitty place with shitty people, as it won't make them enough money.  At a certain point having idiots everywhere no longer makes $$ sense for even the rich.  They need at least a decent sized number of well educated people to invent things and make life at least a little better or the super rich will start to suffer too.   Most people that hold (real) power arewell educated (and always have been).  If idiocracy becomes a thing, it will still be the rich well educated that run things, with a clown as front man to keep the masses happy.  

It  sounds like a form of enslavement when you put it that way.  "Let's ensure that we still have a certain number of people with intelligence who can do our bidding while we remain oblivious to what is really happening " kind of thing.

The rest of us, they just want to have doped up and dumbed down. 

 

Edited October 19, 2016 by kat

[Scary Guy]

14 hours ago, Troy Spiral said:

Yeah the nukes comments he made to me were like WHAT THE FUCK.  Even if he was thinking that you dont SAY that if your the president or want to be the president.  I can say some wise ass shit like that since I'm you know...  a wise ass.  But someone that wants to be president saying something like that?  Moronic, Irresponsible... any word you want to use.  Just another "anybody but trump" thing In my mind. 

That is why some people love him though.  Yes every other word that comes out of his mouth is a lie.  However he says those with the most sincere honesty.  His brain mouth filter is non functional so whatever he is thinking gets spit out into the ether.  He already got advanced privileged access to some intel and in almost no time the public did as well.  One thing is for certain; the government will be WAY more transparent with Trump than with Hillary for the simple reason that he can't figure out how to close his damn mouth.

 

13 hours ago, kat said:

It  sounds like a form of enslavement when you put it that way.  "Let's ensure that we still have a certain number of people with intelligence who can do our bidding while we remain oblivious to what is really happening " kind of thing.

The rest of us, they just want to have doped up and dumbed down. 

Dumb people are easier to control.  They might act up more but they can't figure out how to actually take control of things.  If they really act up they'll be shot and replaced.

I am reminded of a scene from a certain TV show where it shows a ton of workers with chips in them.  When one acts up the unit (person) is just switched off.

I'm also reminded of this (it's kind of big, but well worth the read):

Anyway, Trump is right on that the entire system is rigged.  Which just proves that any idiot can see that.  Of course the media and Clinton's camp claim otherwise.  People need the system to work because if they don't believe they have a hand in picking their rulers then they'll start to think about ways they might be able to actually change things, and that is dangerous to those in power.  I still say it's already rigged to support only a two party system.  Instant runoff voting would be the only way the masses could have a real say IMO.

[phee]

Worried

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I'm pretty much in shock that it is this close.  :(

 

Worse...Now, regardless of who wins it will be contested and we will probably have another Al Gore / Bush BS  situation for weeks (or god knows how long).   

[Scary Guy]

No, sounds like Trump got it by a landslide.  I'd have been pissed either way though so w/e.

[Maureen Falcon]

I'm afraid for my kids and all of their classmates. I'm afraid for all of my 'non-white' and gay friends. I'm afraid for America as a whole at this point. I'm deeply troubled at my future because of how I will end up leaving my babies.

[sekhmet2002]

On 11/12/2016 at 1:47 PM, Moe Falcon said:

I'm afraid for my kids and all of their classmates. I'm afraid for all of my 'non-white' and gay friends. I'm afraid for America as a whole at this point. I'm deeply troubled at my future because of how I will end up leaving my babies.

 

Hang in there, Moe. We have survived worse. Even though he will be president that doesn't mean that he controls everything this country does.

[Scary Guy]

On 11/17/2016 at 1:23 AM, sekhmet2002 said:

Hang in there, Moe. We have survived worse. Even though he will be president that doesn't mean that he controls everything this country does.

But he does control the general mood of the people.  I know a lot of racist rednecks who wanted him in, because now they think that it's okay to be racist since the masses elected someone perceived by the masses as racist.

The only people I'm not afraid for are gun owners.  I support arming women, gays, immigrants, and just about anyone who wants one that isn't a massive danger to themselves or others and can get along with people they disagree with in society.  However that is a tall order for many.

It seems that when it comes to guns, they're the only thing that the Republicans are actually liberal about.

[sekhmet2002]

15 hours ago, Scary Guy said:

But he does control the general mood of the people.  I know a lot of racist rednecks who wanted him in, because now they think that it's okay to be racist since the masses elected someone perceived by the masses as racist.

The only people I'm not afraid for are gun owners.  I support arming women, gays, immigrants, and just about anyone who wants one that isn't a massive danger to themselves or others and can get along with people they disagree with in society.  However that is a tall order for many.

It seems that when it comes to guns, they're the only thing that the Republicans are actually liberal about.

 

Very true, SG. The people seem to be working themselves into a frenzy and it's ridiculous. Just accept that he's our next president and stop rioting. People really need to get over this and pull together to make sure the country doesn't implode.

[Scary Guy]

Shit, remember how the kids at Royal Oak HS were chanting "Build the wall?"  Now someone found a noose in the bathroom.  That student got sent home (probably will get expelled as an example.)

I can't wait for all the families to get together and argue over what will be the worst Thanksgiving in a long time.  I was calling it "national hate week" because the SJW camp had a literal meltdown that Trump won, and again, rednecks think it's okay to be openly hostile toward minorities.

Right now my best guess is he doesn't make it 100 days without doing something totally illegal and getting impeached over it.  But then again as Nixon said "when the president does it, it's not illegal"  That's scary as hell because then Pence is president.  The whole thing is starting to piss me off even more and I'm now for the most part apolitical.