Women.......

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

Ok, this is something I posted on Myspace as well as my Livejournal, and thought I'd share here:

Ok I've seen some really lame crap going around about how people should treat women. Everything from sending notes, to leaving daily voicemails for them to wake up to (can someone say psycho), as well as a lot of other crap that just seems very impersonal. There is no secret recipe to pleasing a woman and being a good boyfriend, nor is there certain steps one must take. Every woman is different and special and should be treated as such. With this being said, I've found in my lifetime that these 8 things are more important and meaningful than half the crap I've seen in other related posts.

1. Listen to her. Women remember everything. What they say, and what you say.

2. By your actions and not your words, show her that you appreciate her.

3. Do not tell her you love her, unless you do:

You're willing to die for her, put her first and yourself last, care for her the way you would care for yourself (taking care of her when she is sick, giving her food if she is hungry, and giving her everything and anything else she needs that she does not have), and caring more about her satisfaction than your own. Anything else is not love, but infatuation.

4. Give her the affection that she needs.

5. Remind her that she is special and beautiful to you.

6. Hold and open doors for her as well as pull out chairs for her.

7. Even if you don't agree with her opinion, show her not only that you respect it, but that you understand why she has it, because you have listened to her and you care about her as a person. You care about her because she is her own independent free thinking woman. It's not about right and wrong, because right and wrong is a matter of perspective. At least listen and understand, and respect what is important to her.

8. Share things that are important to you, and let her share things that are important to her.

In closing, if you want to keep your girlfriend, then treat her like your girlfriend, and not like she's just part of the collection of girlfriends you've had thats not unique and special in her own way. Show her that you appreciate her for who she is, and not who you want her to be. Get to know her for who she is, and accept that. Otherwise, do yourself a favor and go kill yourself, because there are enough assholes in this world.

Yours truly,

Kevin

[JaneDead]

how YOU doin?

oh wait... i am already married... *damn*

[Vivian]

ehhhh *twitch twitch*... thats all fine and dandy..

My male roommate scoffs at it though.. He laughed pretty hard. I smacked upside his head..

Dont forget to forgive us, for being pissy one week outta four!

forgive us, we are human, we make mistakes too.

*is seriously have female problems*

[mallochai]

wow kevin, rock on with your badass sensitive to a girls needs self.

Now then... about the only thing I don't agree with is the following:

"You're willing to die for her, put her first and yourself last, care for her the way you would care for yourself (taking care of her when she is sick, giving her food if she is hungry, and giving her everything and anything else she needs that she does not have), and caring more about her satisfaction than your own. Anything else is not love, but infatuation."

While this is a very wonderful thing in theory, the unfortunate part is that caring for someone else before yourself is not only a little unrealistic, but very self endangering. Romantic, yes, but if you're forever putting someone else's wants and needs in front of your own, you'll never accomplish anything uniquely you, and eventually forget who you are and what you want anyway.

Of course, that's just a hypothetical theory, but I would feel really crappy if someone was always doing things for me, and nothing for their self. That just seems so... empty, always trying to living up to someone else's expectations, trying only to please them, trying always to be what you might think they want...

Eh, maybe I'm just thinking too extremely about this. Sorry, didn't mean to be a bash party. Other than that... the whole thing is great.

I'm too critical sometimes

[crunchy_pickle (5)]

Now then... about the only thing I don't agree with is the following:

"You're willing to die for her, put her first and yourself last, care for her the way you would care for yourself (taking care of her when she is sick, giving her food if she is hungry, and giving her everything and anything else she needs that she does not have), and caring more about her satisfaction than your own. Anything else is not love, but infatuation."

While this is a very wonderful thing in theory, the unfortunate part is that caring for someone else before yourself is not only a little unrealistic, but very self endangering.  Romantic, yes, but if you're forever putting someone else's wants and needs in front of your own, you'll never accomplish anything uniquely you, and eventually forget who you are and what you want anyway. 

Actually, I completely disagree with this statement. The reason for this is my father was this kind of man. He sacrificed a lot of dreams for my mother, myself, and my four siblings. Why? He loved us all period. He worked his ass off all the way into the grave, and even if he had a 70-80 hour work week, he still made time to be our baseball coach, take us to the park, be our scout leader, etc. He never forgot what he wanted, but his want for us to have a happy life became more important than his own wishes. Personally, I'm a couple years away from a point where I'd ever get married, because there's certain things in life I'd want before I'd be willing to make those kinds of sacrifices, but on the same token, I would not be unwilling to. Now if we're speaking "absolute" selflessness, well thats just not possible. He wouldn't be able to take care of himself at all, if he was completely selfless right? I hear this crap all too much, and all it really is, is a way to justify selfish human behavior really. There are no absolutes, but he is the best example of selflessness that I can think of.

[Brenda Starrr]

That's how I would want it to be for me, Kevin. Just as you described it. I love sensitive men.

[kellygrrrrrl]

ATTENTION ALL GUYS! READ THIS IT MAY GET YOU LAID!

[Lilith]

[Head Wreck]

i thought this was common sense.

and a note to women. all that doesnt get me laid... ever.

allways treated women with respect, and i can say i am even more respectfull than i was before.

nearest i got to being laid whas when i ignored half of that and went out of my way to be "evil chris"

[Daevion]

can I have a refund if it doesn't work?

[Onyx]

This doesn't only go for men. Both people who are part of a couple need to treat each other with respect and love. Otherwise, why bother?

[Fierce Critter]

On the "self-sacrificing" tip...

There definitely has to be some balance. The first few years of our marriage (we married 6 months after meeting face-to-face) was me sacrificing all of myself for my husband.

This was, I learned, a bad thing. Since my husband has grown and matured, we've discussed just how much time I spent on him, and how little he really spent on me. We had to get beyond the fact that he works outside of the house so I can stay home and do eBay as a side job. There's so much beyond who brings in a paycheck.

We had to discuss the fact that it also involves how much a person took the time to know the other's loves, hates, wants, needs, etc. You can ask me ANYTHING about Jon's favorites/likes/dislikes and I can answer it. For the first few years of our marriage, you could have asked Jon the same about me and received a blank stare. NOT good.

On the one hand, it's good to base every decision made in a relationship on how it will affect BOTH of you. But that becomes a bad thing when only one person is using that as a basis of action/inaction. Jon realized how selfish he could be in letting ME be totally selfLESS - and things have been turning around nicely for some time now.

It was a long time in coming, however. In the past 6 years, I gave up almost everything ME - I haven't touched my craft beads, paints, models, etc. for that entire time. I gave up watching TV shows I found interesting 'cause they disturbed Jon (medical procedures, etc). I gave up what might have been a sucessful music career - my biggest dream. I gave up activities I find interesting 'cause they bored Jon.

In essence, my life became Jon. I ceased to exist.

NOT GOOD.

As I said, things are turning around. Jon goes out of his way to know who I am now. He'll leave activities up to me - whether he likes them or not, just as I did for years. He takes steps to be sure I have time & opportunity to be MYSELF.

My dad was similar to Steven's. Gave up being a drummer, and all sorts of other things to be a father of 6. Only in his retirement did he start taking time & money to do things for himself. And I'm cheering him on.

There HAS to be balance. Otherwise one partner isn't being fair to the other.

[The_Dark]

I live for my wife. There are a great many thing over the years I could have done to better myself, but at the cost of my family. I cant do it, it's not in my nature. I love my wife and she comes First, Second and Always. The only thing that can ever trump my wife, is our kids.

[Shade Everdark]

1. Listen to her. Women remember everything. What they say, and what you say.

2. By your actions and not your words, show her that you appreciate her.

3. Do not tell her you love her, unless you do:

You're willing to die for her, put her first and yourself last, care for her the way you would care for yourself (taking care of her when she is sick, giving her food if she is hungry, and giving her everything and anything else she needs that she does not have), and caring more about her satisfaction than your own. Anything else is not love, but infatuation.

4. Give her the affection that she needs.

5. Remind her that she is special and beautiful to you.

6. Hold and open doors for her as well as pull out chairs for her.

7. Even if you don't agree with her opinion, show her not only that you respect it, but that you understand why she has it, because you have listened to her and you care about her as a person. You care about her because she is her own independent free thinking woman. It's not about right and wrong, because right and wrong is a matter of perspective. At least listen and understand, and respect what is important to her.

8. Share things that are important to you, and let her share things that are important to her.

In closing, if you want to keep your girlfriend, then treat her like your girlfriend, and not like she's just part of the collection of girlfriends you've had thats not unique and special in her own way. Show her that you appreciate her for who she is, and not who you want her to be. Get to know her for who she is, and accept that. Otherwise, do yourself a favor and go kill yourself, because there are enough assholes in this world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm sorry to have to burst everyone's bubble, but this is really so much sentimental tripe. Really...this sounds like it ought to be in a piece of Hollywood fluff. It's nice to think about, but it doesn't really have any place in the real world.

As far as that definition of love goes, then I've never loved anyone, not my girlfriend, my friends, my parents, even myself. Because I'm not ready to die for any of them.

ATTENTION ALL GUYS! READ THIS IT MAY GET YOU LAID!

If all of that is the passport to sex, I'll stay in my home country of Celibacy, thanks.

[Fierce Critter]

I'm sorry to have to burst everyone's bubble, but this is really so much sentimental tripe.  Really...this sounds like it ought to be in a piece of Hollywood fluff.  It's nice to think about, but it doesn't really have any place in the real world. 

As far as that definition of love goes, then I've never loved anyone, not my girlfriend, my friends, my parents, even myself.  Because I'm not ready to die for any of them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So, you've never loved anyone, and yet you think you know what does and does not have a place in the "real world" when it comes to love?

Come revisit this thread when you HAVE found someone you're ready to die for. Maybe you'll reconsider.

[torn asunder]

the concept of "real love means being willing to die for someone" is a bunch of shit. and yes, i do know what love is - that has nothing to do with the above, because in order to love another, you must first love yourself, and how can you love yourself enough to die for yourself!? i just think the whole idea is silly... :erm

[saechalyn]

I actually like some degree of selfishness in a person. I would honestly prefer a partner who has some committments that they're not willing to compromise on- to an extent, of course. For example, my best friend is in a ph.d program and on the way to becoming a professor. She wouldn't sacrifice her career for someone else (extreme circumstances notwithstanding, I'm not trying to be nit-picky here) and I would honestly value that kind of drive and ambition and commitment to work you believe in over someone who was willing to give it all up for me.

Of course, as FC pointed out, there has to be some balance. Of course relationships involve sacrifice, etc etc. But I think there are limits.

[Shade Everdark]

So, you've never loved anyone, and yet you think you know what does and does not have a place in the "real world" when it comes to love?

Come revisit this thread when you HAVE found someone you're ready to die for. Maybe you'll reconsider.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As you'll note, I said according to the definition given above, then I've never loved anyone. I also thought my tone made it clear that I did not agree with that particular definition.

Honestly, yes I do think I know what does and does not have a place in the real world when it comes to love. Even if, according to any definition, I've never loved, it does not preclude me from having that opinion, nor does it preclude aforementioned opinion from being an intelligent and valid one. I've never seen a nuclear explosion, either, but I feel pretty comfortable in saying that the real world doesn't need anymore of those, either. One can't simply throw all practicalities to the wind, for this happy-ending version of love. Life doesn't work like that; no life I've seen does, anyway.

That's my position. You want me to reconsider, then some evidence is in order.

[Fierce Critter]

As you'll note, I said according to the definition given above, then I've never loved anyone.  I also thought my tone made it clear that I did not agree with that particular definition.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Missed that particular nuance/qualification. My bad.

As you'll note, I said according to the definition given above, then I've never loved anyone.  I also thought my tone made it clear that I did not agree with that particular definition.

Honestly, yes I do think I know what does and does not have a place in the real world when it comes to love.  One can't simply throw all practicalities to the wind, for this happy-ending version of love.  Life doesn't work like that; no life I've seen does, anyway.

That's my position.  You want me to reconsider, then some evidence is in order.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't see where any of what was suggested is impractical. I think all of it, for the most part, is an integral part of love, for BOTH sexes.

Except for the part, which is being kinda debated here, about being totally and completely selfless. I think most of us are agreeing that's not a good idea. Though I would further explain my position of you should live for the collective EACH OTHER - making decisions & taking or not taking actions as dictated by what's good for the couple.

[The_Dark]

As far as that definition of love goes, then I've never loved anyone, not my girlfriend, my friends, my parents, even myself. Because I'm not ready to die for any of them.

So, the boat is sinking.. it's either save yourself or save your wife and children... and you let them die. Your sad, really, you are.

Whats worse.. you think listening to your partner, showing her that your appreciate her, showing her your love, being a gentleman and talking about your problems with her are all tripe and have no place in the real world....

So, she's just a casual fuck and someone to sit next to you at the movies? I'm thinking she wouldn't be too happy to hear that.

Sad, truly sad.

[Shade Everdark]

Dark, Dark, Dark. You tread into deeper waters than you know.

And my actions, quite simply, speak for themselves.

[The_Dark]

In the bleak emptyness that you portray your heart to be? Excuse me while I staple my hand to my forehead.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

I've tried diligently to act upon this for most of my adult life, and encouraged others to do the same, very often, publicly and privately. My father and grandfather along with most of my spiritual and emotional understanding, while not exactly the same as the above in words and specifics, the overall meaning is the same.

I'd also add , not to expect perfection or putting the one you love on a pedestal, you'll just end up hurting yourself and them in the process.

You cannot expect understanding for all your own weaknesses from a woman you love. Hopefully she will be understanding, but some things are just to hard for them to overcome, you need to fix yourself. You'll lose them in the process if your not very, very careful.

I know in my heart i want to be a sincere loving person and act in accordance with my beliefs.

Unfortunately , due to my own weaknesses i failed, despite trying desperately not to and being wholeheartedly in love. Not so much as to feel that im a horrible person, but enough to ruin an amazing , beautiful relationship, better than i ever had in my entire life. It probably was "the one" and i failed. Some things, as much as we might like to undo them, probably cannot be undone, at least not by us mortals. I've been paying for it painfully with my health and my heart, almost every moment of every day since. Its a rare day i make it through without crying. Have not had a good day in a long time and I totally deserve it. No one else to blame but myself.