The future of "The DGN Gathering"

[Scary Guy]

So, over the course of many years past some splinter groups have shot off from the main gathering (some active and others not,) either out of spite by those who were pushed out / strongly urged to leave by "Father Troy," or because they didn't like the new focus on sexuality and BDSM topics.

Currently we have nothing though and we need something to fill this void.  Yes the founder is gone but that doesn't stop us from existing and wanting to be social.  This used to be a weekly meeting however and that most likely will not continue.  Though I had an idea typing another post in another thread.  What about weekly different venues?

 

Most of the members who bothered to put themselves on the member map are in or around Westland, while some of us are on the East side.  That one IHOP seems run down and needs a fan (or probably two) to circulate air in that room.

 

Since some members can't get along I propose the following.  DGN Gathering is at IHOP, DGN East side is at The Ram's Horn on Dequendre/13.  These can alternate weekly or a third location can be thrown in (IHOP Troy is nice because it has its own meeting room with proper HVAC.)

Then we can coordinate and all the people who don't like each other can go to different venues for it.  They don't even have to talk to each other.  One always gets the first Saturday, the other the second, etc...  If there's a fifth Saturday then whoever wants to show up and be an adult to work things out can do so.  If it turns out there are only two parties then they can alternate weeks.  But this whole "I'm not going because such and such is going" is childish and weak.  It's a free country (technically) so go eat where and when you want.  I get that not everyone likes me either but I'm still willing to break bread with most of them if they show up.  All I ask is people try to remain civil and polite even if we disagree.

[Scary Guy]

Literally no one has any input on this?

I was also reminded recently about a post on an older gathering and I forgot that I suggested splitting the meetups between The DGN Gathering and The House Spiral Gathering.  That was a good idea and I hope the Discord group is still meeting up.

[TronRP]

It's not that there is no input, it's just no public input currently.

 

The DGN Gathering that started in 2016 was actually something that had been in the works since 2011, originally suggested as Monthly DGN Gatherings, and that was with everyone who was still a part of the forum at that time.  My request is a to have a standby mode.

 

Also, you can meet up with any DGNer you want to.  It will not be called an official "DGN" meetup or gathering, but that is still an option and you can post about what you did.  Who knows, it might create ideas for options.

[NocteSpiritus]

On 7/7/2023 at 5:07 PM, Scary Guy said:

 

 

Most of the members who bothered to put themselves on the member map are in or around Westland, while some of us are on the East side.  That one IHOP seems run down and needs a fan (or probably two) to circulate air in that room.

 

 

 

 

There could be members that aren't comfortable in giving out their location, even if it's a general one. It is a good idea, maybe the "bothered to put themselves" bit seems to be a bit ... something. Like you're not liking that the active members didn't give their location. That's what I'm seeing. That you're bothered that those that didn't locate themselves didn't do that.

[Scary Guy]

5 hours ago, TronRP said:

It's not that there is no input, it's just no public input currently.

 

The DGN Gathering that started in 2016 was actually something that had been in the works since 2011, originally suggested as Monthly DGN Gatherings, and that was with everyone who was still a part of the forum at that time.  My request is a to have a standby mode.

 

Also, you can meet up with any DGNer you want to.  It will not be called an official "DGN" meetup or gathering, but that is still an option and you can post about what you did.  Who knows, it might create ideas for options.

Yeah so, why do we need a pause then?  I must have missed that.  Non-official isn't good enough because no one really cares about non-official events (or rather, I don't have the amazing pull that Troy did.)

I remember a bunch of the other gatherings we did before it was even called that.  That thing at the hotel (photoshoot hangout thing), That party at the church rectory off of I-75 when that one member was living there (can't remember her name.) I think even Manfast used to count before it split off into its own thing.  I suppose I could do my own thing, but that would completely miss the point of it being a DGN thing.

 

(Also Stu's event doesn't count because I just help out, and he can advertise that here if he wants to, and we haven't had one of those in a long time either.)

 

 

3 hours ago, NocteSpiritus said:

There could be members that aren't comfortable in giving out their location, even if it's a general one. It is a good idea, maybe the "bothered to put themselves" bit seems to be a bit ... something. Like you're not liking that the active members didn't give their location. That's what I'm seeing. That you're bothered that those that didn't locate themselves didn't do that.

I'm not bothered at all, and people are lucky that I even bothered to have mine (well my general area) put down.  Quite the contrary as I like privacy and hate Google (which runs that map.)

 

You're focusing on the wrong thing here.  I was just saying of those that did do that is all.  It is what it is though I guess and were obviously not going to get every member doing that since most aren't even active.

I guess I'm just pissed off that one of the websites I have been an associate of is dying (again.) Everyone is on the popular platforms that abuse their privacy to mine their data (and yours by association!) It's this crushing torrent of spying by the government and corporations to keep us all subservient and buying things, and most are oblivious to it, and those who are not ignorant of that fact seem to willingly buy into this Faustian deal while dragging others like me along with them kicking and screaming.

 

But I'm getting pretty far off-topic here, and it's my own damn topic!

[TronRP]

4 minutes ago, Scary Guy said:

Yeah so, why do we need a pause then?  I must have missed that.  Non-official isn't good enough because no one really cares about non-official events (or rather, I don't have the amazing pull that Troy did.)

I remember a bunch of the other gatherings we did before it was even called that.  That thing at the hotel (photoshoot hangout thing), That party at the church rectory off of I-75 when that one member was living there (can't remember her name.) I think even Manfast used to count before it split off into its own thing.  I suppose I could do my own thing, but that would completely miss the point of it being a DGN thing.

 

(Also Stu's event doesn't count because I just help out, and he can advertise that here if he wants to, and we haven't had one of those in a long time either.)

 

 

I'm not bothered at all, and people are lucky that I even bothered to have mine (well my general area) put down.  Quite the contrary as I like privacy and hate Google (which runs that map.)

 

You're focusing on the wrong thing here.  I was just saying of those that did do that is all.  It is what it is though I guess and were obviously not going to get every member doing that since most aren't even active.

I guess I'm just pissed off that one of the websites I have been an associate of is dying (again.) Everyone is on the popular platforms that abuse their privacy to mine their data (and yours by association!) It's this crushing torrent of spying by the government and corporations to keep us all subservient and buying things, and most are oblivious to it, and those who are not ignorant of that fact seem to willingly buy into this Faustian deal while dragging others like me along with them kicking and screaming.

 

But I'm getting pretty far off-topic here, and it's my own damn topic!

~~~~~

What I don't understand is why you are coming across like no one else exist unless you see them doing something.

 

I don't know what your experience is/was like running the site(s) that you do/did, but there is a lot that goes into it, especially when revamping from previous ownership.  There are several of us running and overseeing the functions of DGN as well as those who are over House Spiral.

 

I don't want my tone to change, but I'm getting a bit frustrated being chased after to make sure things that are seen from the outside are being handled properly.

 

I'm going to step back and do what I need to do.

[TronRP]

Also, everything that was mention, was attended by a recognized member of DGN, thus making them DGN event.

[Scary Guy]

2 minutes ago, TronRP said:

~~~~~

What I don't understand is why you are coming across like no one else exist unless you see them doing something.

 

I don't know what your experience is/was like running the site(s) that you do/did, but there is a lot that goes into it, especially when revamping from previous ownership.  There are several of us running and overseeing the functions of DGN as well as those who are over House Spiral.

 

I don't want my tone to change, but I'm getting a bit frustrated being chased after to make sure things that are seen from the outside are being handled properly.

 

I'm going to step back and do what I need to do.

 

Because no one tells me anything because everyone is on Failbook or Diescord.  I see the information here unless there's an official post about it, and that only happens if it's an official event.

I'm just tired of the waiting and the silence is all.  This is your ship and has been for a long time now, so I guess I'm confused about what exactly needs to change over?  You do things as you see fit I guess and I don't mean to stress you out, but I (and others I'm sure) would like to see this ball rolling soon.

If I need to light a fire under @phee and @torn asunder then so be it.

 

 

1 minute ago, TronRP said:

Also, everything that was mention, was attended by a recognized member of DGN, thus making them DGN event.

Fair.  So what you're saying is we need to force you all out more?

[TronRP]

1 minute ago, Scary Guy said:

 

Because no one tells me anything because everyone is on Failbook or Diescord.  I see the information here unless there's an official post about it, and that only happens if it's an official event.

I'm just tired of the waiting and the silence is all.  This is your ship and has been for a long time now, so I guess I'm confused about what exactly needs to change over?  You do things as you see fit I guess and I don't mean to stress you out, but I (and others I'm sure) would like to see this ball rolling soon.

If I need to light a fire under @phee and @torn asunder then so be it.

 

 

Fair.  So what you're saying is we need to force you all out more?

~~~~~

I was not aware that hosting this board meant that I would come under fire just because I respected the rules.

 

This is the only place on the web that I do anything and it is becoming stressful.  I was not informed that I signed up for a board beating because another person had a grandiose plan that I wasn't let in on, but apparently have inherited.

 

So yes, maybe you should contact @torn asunder and @phee as they have been here longer than myself. 

[NocteSpiritus]

4 hours ago, Scary Guy said:

 

Because no one tells me anything because everyone is on Failbook or Diescord.  I see the information here unless there's an official post about it, and that only happens if it's an official event.

I'm just tired of the waiting and the silence is all.  This is your ship and has been for a long time now, so I guess I'm confused about what exactly needs to change over?  You do things as you see fit I guess and I don't mean to stress you out, but I (and others I'm sure) would like to see this ball rolling soon.

 

 

 

Have you thought about asking about what's going on instead of sitting around complaining about 'not being told' or that 'everyone's on other social media'? 

Maybe try talking with those 'in charge' as it were. Those official DGN people, and work with them in working on making an official events? 

[TronRP]

Just for clarification:

 

House Spiral and Detroit Gothic Net are 2 sides of the same coin, however, "Events" have always been hosted by House Spiral.  There was just never a separate entity for hosting House Spiral until these past few years: Patreon, YouTube and Facebook.

 

Detroit Gothic Net (this site) is the message board aspect of the community.  When DGN has an event, it is classified as a DGN Event when attended by a DGN Staff Member: Admin, MOD, Emissary.

 

As Troy was still in the works as to the functions of the go-between communication, there was never a clear system set in place.  This is the gap we are working to bridge.

 

I truly do appreciate the passion for this community and wanting to see the future direction it is moving in.

[Scary Guy]

5 hours ago, NocteSpiritus said:

Have you thought about asking about what's going on instead of sitting around complaining about 'not being told' or that 'everyone's on other social media'? 

Maybe try talking with those 'in charge' as it were. Those official DGN people, and work with them in working on making an official events? 

 

1. What makes you think I haven't?

 

2. The other reason for this post was to try to gather ideas about it to help them in our goal.  The administration should always consider input from the public because otherwise you have an authoritarian dictatorship and I'm pretty sure most of the people here hate that type of thing.

 

 

16 minutes ago, TronRP said:

Just for clarification:

 

House Spiral and Detroit Gothic Net are 2 sides of the same coin, however, "Events" have always been hosted by House Spiral.  There was just never a separate entity for hosting House Spiral until these past few years: Patreon, YouTube and Facebook.

 

Detroit Gothic Net (this site) is the message board aspect of the community.  When DGN has an event, it is classified as a DGN Event when attended by a DGN Staff Member: Admin, MOD, Emissary.

 

As Troy was still in the works as to the functions of the go-between communication, there was never a clear system set in place.  This is the gap we are working to bridge.

 

I truly do appreciate the passion for this community and wanting to see the future direction it is moving in.

The site predates House Spiral, and therefore events do as well.

As far as the communication goes that's like the easiest thing in today's interconnected world.  I'm not exactly sure how it worked before all this, but I imagine it went something like you making a post after getting the info from Troy.

Maybe the issue is one of who calls the shots?  Which of course I'd say DGN as it was here first.  Myself and many others don't care for House Spiral as it was always DGN we were and are here for.  Sure I entertained it for a bit, but ultimately it became the fetish cult of Troy and many of those who went were uncomfortable with that.  Again I do value the friendship/association that we had and deep down he was a good person, but I was never here to stroke his ego.  As such I think HS should go do their own thing since they were already doing that anyway, and that we should do our own thing.  Maybe some of those that left over that might come back?

I remember the early gatherings at The Red Apple and they felt different, because they were different.  I suppose that's what I'm trying to get back to (not the venue itself because TRA is gross.) However maybe those days are gone and I should just accept that?  The problem is I really do not want to because I am forever stuck in the past.

For better or worse though this has been a good discussion.  But I'm most interested to hear the input from the rest of the mod team.

[TronRP]

9 minutes ago, Scary Guy said:

 

1. What makes you think I haven't?

 

2. The other reason for this post was to try to gather ideas about it to help them in our goal.  The administration should always consider input from the public because otherwise you have an authoritarian dictatorship and I'm pretty sure most of the people here hate that type of thing.

 

 

The site predates House Spiral, and therefore events do as well.

As far as the communication goes that's like the easiest thing in today's interconnected world.  I'm not exactly sure how it worked before all this, but I imagine it went something like you making a post after getting the info from Troy.

Maybe the issue is one of who calls the shots?  Which of course I'd say DGN as it was here first.  Myself and many others don't care for House Spiral as it was always DGN we were and are here for.  Sure I entertained it for a bit, but ultimately it became the fetish cult of Troy and many of those who went were uncomfortable with that.  Again I do value the friendship/association that we had and deep down he was a good person, but I was never here to stroke his ego.  As such I think HS should go do their own thing since they were already doing that anyway, and that we should do our own thing.  Maybe some of those that left over that might come back?

I remember the early gatherings at The Red Apple and they felt different, because they were different.  I suppose that's what I'm trying to get back to (not the venue itself because TRA is gross.) However maybe those days are gone and I should just accept that?  The problem is I really do not want to because I am forever stuck in the past.

For better or worse though this has been a good discussion.  But I'm most interested to hear the input from the rest of the mod team.

~~~~~

As you state, you see things the way you believed they ran.  As I mentioned, events were always HS and therefore the cards have the HS logo flag and/or "House Spiral" on them if you ever received one by attending an event.  As well as the postings of The Gathering have the HS logo flag.  The only thing that predated HS was the radio station that Troy used to host.  HS was part of the first launching of the site Detroit Gothic Net in 2001 and was fleshed out over the years.

 

City Club had a DGN Night and people posted about the aftermath as it was a DGN Event due to being attended by a Staff Member.

 

I definitely see the need for a change in how things are done and classified with respect to what is HS and what is DGN even if this means they become separate entities for the sanity of the members.  But at this time, no one has 100% run of either branch.  Not even Troy did and yes, he was the Founder.

 

If people are asking for a 100% head of HS and a 100% head of DGN, then by all means, put in a poll and members can vote about it.

[Stu]

Anything I can do to help for either, don't hesitate to ask. ❤️

[Scary Guy]

32 minutes ago, TronRP said:

~~~~~

As you state, you see things the way you believed they ran.  As I mentioned, events were always HS and therefore the cards have the HS logo flag and/or "House Spiral" on them if you ever received one by attending an event.  As well as the postings of The Gathering have the HS logo flag.  The only thing that predated HS was the radio station that Troy used to host.  HS was part of the first launching of the site Detroit Gothic Net in 2001 and was fleshed out over the years.

 

City Club had a DGN Night and people posted about the aftermath as it was a DGN Event due to being attended by a Staff Member.

 

I definitely see the need for a change in how things are done and classified with respect to what is HS and what is DGN even if this means they become separate entities for the sanity of the members.  But at this time, no one has 100% run of either branch.  Not even Troy did and yes, he was the Founder.

 

If people are asking for a 100% head of HS and a 100% head of DGN, then by all means, put in a poll and members can vote about it.

The sad thing is, with the current amount of (in)activity on the site I'm not sure they would?

The entire thing feels like City Club did after the masses of people stopped going.  This is why Troy dragged his feet on other social media sites for so long before finally giving in himself.

 

Also, maybe The Spiral Boards were a thing but no one made mention of House Spiral until at least after 2015.  In fact the first post even mentioning it was in 2016:

So it effectively didn't exist until then.  The first gathering post (about the second gathering?  I couldn't find a post about the first one) does not mention it:
 

March was the first gathering which predates the first mention of it on here by about four months.

But yeah, maybe I do see it differently, and in the end I guess it doesn't really matter much as most of history seems to be pretty subjective (at least the record of it anyway.)

[TronRP]

5 minutes ago, Scary Guy said:

The sad thing is, with the current amount of (in)activity on the site I'm not sure they would?

The entire thing feels like City Club did after the masses of people stopped going.  This is why Troy dragged his feet on other social media sites for so long before finally giving in himself.

 

Also, maybe The Spiral Boards were a thing but no one made mention of House Spiral until at least after 2015.  In fact the first post even mentioning it was in 2016:

So it effectively didn't exist until then.  The first gathering post (about the second gathering?  I couldn't find a post about the first one) does not mention it:
 

March was the first gathering which predates the first mention of it on here by about four months.

But yeah, maybe I do see it differently, and in the end I guess it doesn't really matter much as most of history seems to be pretty subjective (at least the record of it anyway.)

~~~~~

As I mentioned to you before, the first board of DGN had a massive rewrite in 2015 and some of the surviving data only goes back to 2004.  In 2016, he showed me a picture from a House Spiral Movie Night in 2009.  That's when he first mentioned to me what his vision was.

 

Troy's notes on House Spiral were written on paper and literally a restaurant napkin and went back nearly 2 decades.  We had meetings about it which is why I helped him with reaching his vision for the store and Patreon.

 

My actual experience with the House Spiral logo only goes back to 2012 and since Troy is not here anymore, this is really becoming a moot point. So I will leave it alone.

But anytime you saw the House Spiral Flag, that was with respect to House Spiral.  And it is on The Gathering posts for The Red Apple and IHOP.

~~~~~

 

Therefore, like I stated earlier, if someone is wanting a "Leader", then please vote on it.

[Scary Guy]

Just thought it'd be fun to upload a little bit of history.  Normally I don't collect cards, but these are the few cards I did save.  The name tag is from the reunion night at Small's.

 

Anyway if we're voting for a new leader then who is even in the running?  If we can do ranked choice voting then my list is as follows.

 

1. Tron (since she's been doing a fantastic job with the site so far.)

2. Everyone else who is not me.

3. Me (I'll do it if no one else will, though very reluctantly and it should very much not be me.)

Though this should probably be its own separate thread if it's really going to be a thing.

 

Edited July 15, 2023 by Scary Guy

[TronRP]

28 minutes ago, Scary Guy said:

Just thought it'd be fun to upload a little bit of history.  Normally I don't collect cards, but these are the few cards I did save.  The name tag is from the reunion night at Small's.

 

Anyway if we're voting for a new leader then who is even in the running?  If we can do ranked choice voting then my list is as follows.

 

1. Tron (since she's been doing a fantastic job with the site so far.)

2. Everyone else who is not me.

3. Me (I'll do it if no one else will, though very reluctantly and it should very much not be me.)

Though this should probably be its own separate thread if it's really going to be a thing.

 

~~~~~

Love this.  What a way to bring back some nostalgia.

 

I'm not sure if people would vote for me.  I don't think they would see me as assertive enough.  However, when I have a focused direction, it's pretty hard to stop me.

[Scary Guy]

3 hours ago, TronRP said:

~~~~~

Love this.  What a way to bring back some nostalgia.

 

I'm not sure if people would vote for me.  I don't think they would see me as assertive enough.  However, when I have a focused direction, it's pretty hard to stop me.

You doubt yourself too much as you can be pretty assertive when you want to be, and direction is really easy if you just listen to the users.  Not that we should get everything that we want but we really don't want all that much if anything usually.

Whoever does run it should be here all the time as much as possible which you are.  That's not to say that the rest of the admin team isn't here at least some of the time.  However I guarantee that if you look at their login histories compared to yours that it isn't even a contest, and if we go by post count then it certainly isn't a contest.

[oXMiahGraceXo]

23 hours ago, TronRP said:

~~~~~

Love this.  What a way to bring back some nostalgia.

 

I'm not sure if people would vote for me.  I don't think they would see me as assertive enough.  However, when I have a focused direction, it's pretty hard to stop me.

When I first joined I thought you WERE the one in charge in all honesty. 

 

I don't know how much help I can be from holland, but I'm more than happy to make graphics, and I can video edit footage from events to make trailers and things, and will be so so happy to drive out to see yall in person when things get off the ground. 

 

I have no nostalgia or prior knowledge and no real business being part of any serious conversation about the future of an organization I stumbled face first into. But. 

There's a real need for a place for the weirdos to gather in MI. 

It's pretty lonely out here. And basically everyone I've connected with since moving here has wanted something from me, aside from y'all. 

 

It would be great to have a social event of any kind and if I weren't so far away I'd host

But whatever happens I am happy to help how I can. 

[Scary Guy]

1 hour ago, oXMiahGraceXo said:

When I first joined I thought you WERE the one in charge in all honesty. 

 

I don't know how much help I can be from holland, but I'm more than happy to make graphics, and I can video edit footage from events to make trailers and things, and will be so so happy to drive out to see yall in person when things get off the ground. 

 

I have no nostalgia or prior knowledge and no real business being part of any serious conversation about the future of an organization I stumbled face first into. But. 

There's a real need for a place for the weirdos to gather in MI. 

It's pretty lonely out here. And basically everyone I've connected with since moving here has wanted something from me, aside from y'all. 

 

It would be great to have a social event of any kind and if I weren't so far away I'd host

But whatever happens I am happy to help how I can. 

You're very sweet, but don't offer your help if you don't want everyone to ask for it.  For example I know nothing about computers, I'm a complete moron when it comes to them, and I believe it's just a magic box that smokes when it's angry... right?

Also you might be new, but all things being equal you've posted more recently than some people have over the past decade.  Therefore in my eyes you have more of a say than they do as actually active users should get priority.  Also you're not brand new as 75 posts isn't nothing.  You also sound like you intend to at least stick around for a while.  In the age of modern social media that means more than it used to, as those make it easy to be a part of I think where as this actually takes some effort.

If you really want to you could still host events out there.  In fact as far as I'm aware you have?  (That crafting session I mean.) There are weird and unique people everywhere, and usually we can smell our own.  There are some undercover goths as well which can be harder to spot.  A short conversation about whatever alternative special interest can usually sus them out though.

Maybe one day the board will get to the point where videos and things are done again.  If you still want to help then that would be great.  You can even do things on your own and submit them to Tron for approval to make them "official" media.  (See the FAQ section of this, which doesn't currently specifically say, but should also cover any artwork/logos/iconography as well.)

[oXMiahGraceXo]

5 hours ago, Scary Guy said:

You're very sweet, but don't offer your help if you don't want everyone to ask for it.  For example I know nothing about computers, I'm a complete moron when it comes to them, and I believe it's just a magic box that smokes when it's angry... right?

Also you might be new, but all things being equal you've posted more recently than some people have over the past decade.  Therefore in my eyes you have more of a say than they do as actually active users should get priority.  Also you're not brand new as 75 posts isn't nothing.  You also sound like you intend to at least stick around for a while.  In the age of modern social media that means more than it used to, as those make it easy to be a part of I think where as this actually takes some effort.

If you really want to you could still host events out there.  In fact as far as I'm aware you have?  (That crafting session I mean.) There are weird and unique people everywhere, and usually we can smell our own.  There are some undercover goths as well which can be harder to spot.  A short conversation about whatever alternative special interest can usually sus them out though.

Maybe one day the board will get to the point where videos and things are done again.  If you still want to help then that would be great.  You can even do things on your own and submit them to Tron for approval to make them "official" media.  (See the FAQ section of this, which doesn't currently specifically say, but should also cover any artwork/logos/iconography as well.)

Oh I'm for sure going to be hosting some west MI event and trying my best to rustle up some weirdos over in my neck of the woods. 

 

But I'm particularly attached to yall (all three of you XD) and I would be happy to help get balls rolling if I can

[TronRP]

4 minutes ago, oXMiahGraceXo said:

Oh I'm for sure going to be hosting some west MI event and trying my best to rustle up some weirdos over in my neck of the woods. 

 

But I'm particularly attached to yall (all three of you XD) and I would be happy to help get balls rolling if I can

~~~~~

🥰

Now that I fully realize the state of things, I am eager to get some balls rolling myself.

 

[oXMiahGraceXo]

4 minutes ago, TronRP said:

~~~~~

🥰

Now that I fully realize the state of things, I am eager to get some balls rolling myself.

 

Cheers to rolling balls! 

 

[TronRP]

2 minutes ago, oXMiahGraceXo said:

Cheers to rolling balls! 

 

~~~~~

When I first joined the board, I used to ride out to visit members just because.

 

The furthest member I visited in the U.S. lives in Adrian, Michigan.  The furthest member I visit outside of the U.S. lives in Canada.  Holland, Michigan is a 3 hour freeway drive.  That's a 6 hour round trip.  Would you be renting a room if you came to Detroit for an event?