Any Godless Heathens Here? Come Get DAM'd!

[Stu]

This goes out to any of my fellow atheists here in the SE Michigan area: join our community!

On the 2nd Tuesday of every month, we have our meetup, DAM 2.0!  DAM (The Detroit Atheist Meetup) is a gathering of, but not exclusive to:
atheists,
agnostics,
non-theists,
anti-theists,
skeptics,
freethinkers,
humanists,
brights,
rationalists,
infidels,
nones,
heathens,
Pastafarians,
heretics,
the curious,
and their friends!

The location: Logan's in Roseville (Gratiot just South of 13 Mile in the Kroger's/Best Buy plaza).  Starts at 6:00 PM!  See our event page at:
https://fb.me/e/1ktB3hWbL

Hope to see you there!

[Scary Guy]

I mean I had a post here about it, but it's your event you do you.  @TronRP if you could unpin the one I made that would be great since we definitely don't need a bunch of pins clogging up everything.

Here's a link to the SAM listing too because I hate Failbook: https://secularalliance.org/index.php/events/1-dam/2023-08-08-18-00

 

Here's a link to the Meetup.com site if anyone is on that: https://www.meetup.com/samich/events/294912983

 

I usually roll in around 5-5:30 ish to set up the slideshow.  I'm hoping to streamline it better though in the future.

[TronRP]

Will do.  I was going to ask which was the official posting for this event.

[Stu]

9 hours ago, Scary Guy said:

I mean I had a post here about it, but it's your event you do you.  @TronRP if you could unpin the one I made that would be great since we definitely don't need a bunch of pins clogging up everything.

I hadn't realized you did that...I'm working on auto-pilot - LOL!  So...how do I pin THIS one, then?

[Stu]

P.S.
The next one is on Tuesday, August 8th!

[TronRP]

16 minutes ago, Stu said:

I hadn't realized you did that...I'm working on auto-pilot - LOL!  So...how do I pin THIS one, then?

I pinned it last night.

 

We just were not featuring it.

 

People were chatting in the one SG made: The Detroit Atheist Meetup 2.0 (every second Tusday)

So it was kept pinned in the listing.  He requested that it be unpinned, I assumed so as not to cause confusion.

[Stu]

You ARE the DGN Goddess, so you run it how you think best.  Just tryin' to get the word out to anyone interested.  (And Scary's post was totally fine - he's bein' a bud and trying to make my life easier.)  Thanks!

~Stu
 

[TronRP]

25 minutes ago, Stu said:

You ARE the DGN Goddess, so you run it how you think best.  Just tryin' to get the word out to anyone interested.  (And Scary's post was totally fine - he's bein' a bud and trying to make my life easier.)  Thanks!

~Stu
 

~~~~~

Understood.

 

There is an interest. Would you mind if I set it up like the way The Gathering posts are done with location and disclaimer?

[Scary Guy]

3 hours ago, TronRP said:

~~~~~

Understood.

 

There is an interest. Would you mind if I set it up like the way The Gathering posts are done with location and disclaimer?

I mean I might.  Again not everyone on here is an atheist and I don't want to scare them off with my god bashing talk.  I mean I still do that but it isn't like it's officially sanctioned by the board.  To me it's about trying to be more inclusive though.

Technically we could use it as an East side The Gathering place though.  One of the managers that I sort of knew from City/Necto and her sister are definitely our crowd, which is always great to see.

I could even make a slideshow for the TV there too featuring goth themed images (my atheist one goes over really well.)

[TronRP]

42 minutes ago, Scary Guy said:

I mean I might.  Again not everyone on here is an atheist and I don't want to scare them off with my god bashing talk.  I mean I still do that but it isn't like it's officially sanctioned by the board.  To me it's about trying to be more inclusive though.

Technically we could use it as an East side The Gathering place though.  One of the managers that I sort of knew from City/Necto and her sister are definitely our crowd, which is always great to see.

I could even make a slideshow for the TV there too featuring goth themed images (my atheist one goes over really well.)

~~~~~

I will just have the post about the when and where.  The discussions can still happen in these posts.  If a person is interested, they will read, if not, they won't.

 

If a person is interested in the event notification, they will read and attend, if not, they won't.

 

I will picture @Stu in the posting as the host for this event so newbies will know who to look for.

 

I like the idea of there being another location for The Gathering.  I do want to coordinate with House Spiral so there will be no conflicts of interests.  If you already have an idea of dates and times, just let me know and I will do some checking.

[phee]

Godless Heathens? I thought DGN stood for Doing Godly Now.... *lights self on fire*

[Class-Punk]

You and anyone in your group might find it interesting to explore John Vervaeke's work on YouTube.  He is an assistant professor at the University of Toronto who identifies as a non-theist, and a cognitive scientist who is interested in something like the idea that people are in a meaning crisis brought on by the current state of culture, philosophy, science, and the negative side-effects of biological adaptation, and exploring solutions for this.  

The conversations he has with theists, rather than being debates, are framed as exploration of how to solve aspects of the meaning crisis with civil disagreements when they come up.  There's a lot of other people connected to him, religious and non-religious, and like him, they are interested in pulling the focus more from debate over religion and politics; and instead, focusing on gaining the most complex, objectively true understanding of maximizing meaning in life.

https://www.youtube.com/@johnvervaeke

Edited July 25, 2023 by Class-Punk

[Scary Guy]

On 7/24/2023 at 7:46 PM, TronRP said:

~~~~~

I will just have the post about the when and where.  The discussions can still happen in these posts.  If a person is interested, they will read, if not, they won't.

 

If a person is interested in the event notification, they will read and attend, if not, they won't.

 

I will picture @Stu in the posting as the host for this event so newbies will know who to look for.

 

I like the idea of there being another location for The Gathering.  I do want to coordinate with House Spiral so there will be no conflicts of interests.  If you already have an idea of dates and times, just let me know and I will do some checking.

Fair enough on the post.  I mean it's not like I'm offended by them at all.  I'd just kind of prefer this to not be an echo chamber like a lot of other groups.

 

As far as Stu goes, maybe he could be an emissary so it can be an official DGN thing?  I'd say you should come but I know you have other obligations usually and some of your family wouldn't enjoy the content of the meetings.
 

Regarding The Gathering we should probably set up another thread for the planning of that.  Oh wait I already did that.

 

 

On 7/24/2023 at 11:59 PM, Class-Punk said:

You and anyone in your group might find it interesting to explore John Vervaeke's work on YouTube.  He is an assistant professor at the University of Toronto who identifies as a non-theist, and a cognitive scientist who is interested in something like the idea that people are in a meaning crisis brought on by the current state of culture, philosophy, science, and the negative side-effects of biological adaptation, and exploring solutions for this.  

The conversations he has with theists, rather than being debates, are framed as exploration of how to solve aspects of the meaning crisis with civil disagreements when they come up.  There's a lot of other people connected to him, religious and non-religious, and like him, they are interested in pulling the focus more from debate over religion and politics; and instead, focusing on gaining the most complex, objectively true understanding of maximizing meaning in life.

(link removed so as not to afflict others)

 

I mean this is easy since life has no meaning, it never has had any, and it never will.  Nor has it/will it ever need any.  :P

Any meaning that it might have is only what we give it/imagine it to be.  I will still check out the channel though.  (EDIT:  I checked it out, not very interesting.)

Edited July 26, 2023 by Scary Guy

[Stu]

14 hours ago, TronRP said:

~~~~~

Understood.

 

There is an interest. Would you mind if I set it up like the way The Gathering posts are done with location and disclaimer?

Not at all.  Again, as you see fit.  I just didn't want to make more work for YOU.  (I think you've got WAY more than enough!) 

~Stu

 

[Class-Punk]

19 hours ago, Scary Guy said:

I mean this is easy since life has no meaning, it never has had any, and it never will.  Nor has it/will it ever need any.  :P

Any meaning that it might have is only what we give it/imagine it to be.  I will still check out the channel though.

I strongly disagree and I think this is scientism and the nihilism that results from it, both of which I believe have an expiration date; but as to why I think that, there's a saying I think that's relevant to the general populace: "Some things cannot be told."

Edited July 25, 2023 by Class-Punk

[know_buddy_kares]

On 7/24/2023 at 4:58 PM, phee said:

Godless Heathens? I thought DGN stood for Doing Godly Now.... *lights self on fire*

Where has your loyalty to Cthulhu gone?!?!

[Stu]

7 hours ago, Class-Punk said:

I strongly disagree and I think this is scientism and the nihilism that results from it, both of which I believe have an expiration date; but as to why I think that, there's a saying I think that's relevant to the general populace: "Some things cannot be told."

"Scientism"?  Um...you understand that science makes this communication possible, right?  The term isn't a real thing; it's an attempt by religionists to put science on the same level as religion.  What you're seeing here is atheism INFORMED by science.
 

[Scary Guy]

10 hours ago, Class-Punk said:

I strongly disagree and I think this is scientism and the nihilism that results from it, both of which I believe have an expiration date; but as to why I think that, there's a saying I think that's relevant to the general populace: "Some things cannot be told."

Science doesn't expire, it is eternal because it is willing to evolve.  New data may be presented that invalidates the old data, unless that old is sound.  That data is based on solid evidence and proof to form theories, and without those all we have are hypotheses that fall apart under inspection.

 

But you are right in that some things cannot be told (or rather taught) if someone isn't willing to learn.  The problem is some of that information may be malformed either in part or in whole.  Hate/bigotry are taught just as religion is, and all are learned behaviors I think the world would be a better place without.

I prefer not to learn things that might damage my mental archive of knowledge, other than maybe to watch out for them.

[Class-Punk]

21 hours ago, Stu said:

"Scientism"?  Um...you understand that science makes this communication possible, right?  The term isn't a real thing; it's an attempt by religionists to put science on the same level as religion.  What you're seeing here is atheism INFORMED by science.
 

I think it depends on how you are defining and viewing science.  I would disagree and say that scientism is the reason for medical crimes against humanity in this decade.  I would say that the scientific method is inferior for general everyday critical-thinking because it adds more steps to probability deduction than what is rational for everyday critical-thinking; and this is important to note because the end goal of critical-thinking is probability deduction. 

So if your critical-thinking is worse you will be unable to see how popular ideology around the scientific method is distorting it, for example with a revolving door between Big Pharma and government health agencies; and this is how you end up with scientism; which ends in things like infants being poisoned by Remdesivir for very big profits under an Emergency Use Authorization, after they have a false positive for having covid from the non-working Covid PCR tests, whose true science is that they are a meaningless diagnosis roulette wheel.  But that's my two cents, I will leave the thread to not keep derailing it.

Edited July 27, 2023 by Class-Punk

[Stu]

1 hour ago, Class-Punk said:

I think it depends on how you are defining and viewing science. 

Do not blame science for people abusing it.  That's like making a label, "computerism" for people who use computers to commit fraud/hacks, etc., and blaming the entirety of computers and I.T. culture.  Fallacious logic.  Science has two very clear, well-established meanings:
1. Science is a method by which we learn about the world/universe we live in.  It isn't MEANT to be applied on an everyday basis by laypeople; do not confuse it with basic logic and reasoning skills.  The scientific method has a very well-defined series of steps to make new deductions from evidence, experiments and observations.
2. Science is the collected body of knowledge: the sum of everything we know.  So, when you see the statement, "unknown to modern science," it means that it has never been documented or vetted by the scientific method.  It is outside of our knowledge.  Of course, this doesn't remain the case forever.  Science is dynamic.

Science, therefore, cannot be "inferior" to everyday critical thinking, but it CAN inform it.  If you have access to knowledge that science has gleaned, then you can use it to sift through the malarchy which we're exposed to on a daily basis.  Science has NOTHING to do with a lack of ethics, corporate greed or political disinformation.  Distortion is antithetical to science.

[Scary Guy]

46 minutes ago, Stu said:

Do not blame science for people abusing it.  That's like making a label, "computerism" for people who use computers to commit fraud/hacks, etc., and blaming the entirety of computers and I.T. culture.  Fallacious logic.  Science has two very clear, well-established meanings:
1. Science is a method by which we learn about the world/universe we live in.  It isn't MEANT to be applied on an everyday basis by laypeople; do not confuse it with basic logic and reasoning skills.  The scientific method has a very well-defined series of steps to make new deductions from evidence, experiments and observations.
2. Science is the collected body of knowledge: the sum of everything we know.  So, when you see the statement, "unknown to modern science," it means that it has never been documented or vetted by the scientific method.  It is outside of our knowledge.  Of course, this doesn't remain the case forever.  Science is dynamic.

Science, therefore, cannot be "inferior" to everyday critical thinking, but it CAN inform it.  If you have access to knowledge that science has gleaned, then you can use it to sift through the malarchy which we're exposed to on a daily basis.  Science has NOTHING to do with a lack of ethics, corporate greed or political disinformation.  Distortion is antithetical to science.

This is why I waited to respond as that was very well said.

To further expand on this, we know how dropping a tennis ball on the ground will bounce up just about every time (depending on the material it is hitting).  To completely understand why it does that though you need to know the theories of physics and gravity, possibly some math too if you want to calculate the speed at which it drops.  Is it hitting a solid like concrete or grass or a liquid pond?

Children don't even need to know all that background though, all they need to know is that they can drop it, it will bounce, and then they can catch it.  Then dopamine will be released by their brain into their system and they will feel good, but now we're getting into biology too.

Life is science and it's all around us even if people don't acknowledge it or actively choose to deny it.