The Jesus freaks have taken over

[the eternal]

WARNING: THIS MATERIAL IS NOT SUITABLE FOR ALL VIEWERS:

THE ETERNAL MAKES FEWER ATTEMPTS AT HUMOR THAN USUAL AND UNLESS YOU ARE SCARED SHITLESS ABOUT THE BIBLE REPLACING ALL THE SCIENCE TEXTBOOKS IN YOUR KIDS CLASSROOM PLEASE MOVE TO ANOTHER THREAD

(might I suggest Compliments or Welcome ...)

Ok I'm probably in the minority as being in the monotheistic "Judeo-Christian tradition" and I believe in a supreme being but I am SOOO pissed off.

There's this bullshit called intelligent design and it's coming to a school near you.

For over a hundred years we've been comfortable going to church and learning creationism and going to school to learn evolution.

Since the Jesus freaks have taken over the White House and the FCC, things are slowly being turned upside down.

The latest: President Bush has stated that schools should start to teach creationism as an equal and opposite theory to evolution. Oh I'm sorry "intelligent design," since the word creationism violates the separation of chuch and state, and intelligent design merely suggests it.

Why is this a big deal?

I don't mind conservative viewpoints. I think people like The Dark can be quite articulate.

but when you argue facts with "I know what I know" that is when I lose it.

We NEED facts.

Intelligent design has NONE.

Evolution has complex theories that have been tested and retested and retested as is necessary with any science,

Any science that is except intelligent design

BECAUSE IT ISNT A SCIENCE!

It basically says the world is too complex to understand so it had to have come from the intelligent design of another being. That being, of course, is Jesus.

So, if it was a boxing match it would go like this

In the BLUE corner we have EV-O-LUTIONNNNNN!!!!!

He's over 100 years old

contains mounds of empirical research,

studies that have proved conclusive time and time again,

and weighs in with the muscle power endorsement of EVERY reputable member of the scientific community

AND....

In the RED corner we have INNNNN-TELIGENT DESIGNNNNNN!!!

He's about 15 years old, although his theories date back thousands, has one book to back him up, THE BIBLEEEE < :woot: :woot: :woot: > and

the support of a disgraced scientific expert and approx 2 men with PHDs

Pretty easy fight huh?

And yet...

Kansas has allowed it,

Ohio has allowed it (one more reason to hate Ohio)

and rabid homophobic conservative wingnut Rick Santorium is trying to push it through in PA.

Now, the president has endorsed it over the public objections of his scientific advisorI

Imagine if you were in a court trial

Defense attorney

"Your honor

sure the prosecutor has the blood of my client,

the DNA,

the semen sample,

the gun,

the knife,

the chainsaw,

the mask made up of the skin of his victims,

a written confession,

and my clients alibi cannot be backed up by anyone in the community SURE,

but

we all know Bob, Bob's a great guy, a good-old boy, a lord fearin' American, and I think although I can't really give you any "evidence" to show that, I've got the testimonial of every good Christian he knows."

<and here's the hook they're using>

None of us were there when this happened so you can't say whether she was killed in a big bang from his gun or if it was the lord's wish she died that way

Look, none of us know what happened for sure, so you need to take this an equal and opposite viewpoint and let each American decide for themselves.

JUDGE

Now all the evidence points to Bob as the killer but...

since we need to look at both sides as "equal theories" on what happened that night,

I declare a mistrial until someone comes forth and says he was there the day the earth was created, er, I mean, the night she was murdered.

How this keeps passing is, school boards,

that are run by ordinary citizens with no scientific knowledge

are being hoodwinked into this

"let's show both sides" argument.

Now of course, it's being challenged but,

If the changing supreme court declares this contitutional,

EVERY SCHOOL IN THE LAND MAY BE TEACHING

subjective

unprovable

bible passages

AS AN EQUAL THEORY TO SCIENCE...

IN A SCIENCE CLASS!!!!!!!

Someone please shoot me now :fear :fear :fear :fear :fear :fear :fear

[phee]

I was listening to some of this on NPR and it is awful...

Intelligent Design folks go under the idea that because evolution can't explain everything... what other choice do we have but to believe them...

It's like saying because we have not figured out all of theory A... then theory B must be true... Bull F**King Sh*t!!!

We live in a country that is teaching this as science for F**Ks sake. Are we asking to be totally left in the dust of other countries advancements...?

I find it insulting that because we have not figured out every aspect of a thing... that it couldn't be anthing but God... Palease....

I am not saying that there is absolutely no higher intelligence involved in the universe... but why try to be stupid? Have your faith...fine...please do, but also see what is there in front of you, and don't do it at my or my countries expense....

[sinnaminn]

Well I'm right there with you in the minority here being a christian myself!

This issue is a hot one I'm sure!Though I may use the theory of intelligent design {or my own version of it} to help my children understand how evolution and and God can co exsist ,I certainly don't believe that school is the place to be learning about God at all!I hope I never encounter a school that crosses the line like that I would be ranting and raving at every pto meeting until they agreed to never try and teach anyone's children about God!

My daughters school has already gotten on my last nerve and she just finished Kindergarten!

[phee]

Well I'm right there with you in the minority here being a christian myself!

This issue is a hot one I'm sure!Though I may use  the theory  of intelligent design {or my own version of it} to help my children understand how evolution and  and God can co exsist ,I certainly don't believe that school is the place to be learning about God at all!I hope I never encounter a school that crosses the line like that I would be ranting and raving at every pto meeting until they agreed to never try and teach anyone's children about God!

My daughters school has already gotten on my last nerve and she just finished Kindergarten!

You have just earned Phee respect points...

What if people were teaching your christian children about some other diety that you don't believe in?

Thanks for posting.

[sinnaminn]

You have just earned Phee respect points...

What if people were teaching your christian children about some other diety that you don't believe in?

Thanks for posting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

=) Thanx! And exactly!Religon of any kind just doesn't belong in school!

[dragoth]

"Religon of any kind"

Evolution should be booted as well. I can refute every aspect of that science. In my opinion, keep ALL world-origin theories out of schools until a decent solid theory is developed.

[SomeDanGuy]

What?? There are mountains and mountains and books and books of evidence. The more I learn about biology and biochemistry, the more impossible it becomes to believe otherwise. It makes sense of evvvverything in a way nothing else can. It has even been observed on a microscale in several different species.

The part of this debate that annoys me the most is when people in favor of intelligent design use the argument "Don't you think children should be taught all sorts of viewpoints in school and not just one?" It's annoying because that statement by itself is true, and who would argue with that? The problem is, it doesn't make sense here. The difference is this: evolution is science. Intelligent design is not. Sure it should be taught in school, but in a social science, religion, or philosophy class, not science. By their argument, we should also teach the Flying Spaghetti Monster theory too

[The_Dark]

There are mountains of books with all kinds of really geat research and information to read... but all of it is missing one thing... proof. Evalution is NOT a proven science. It is taught as if it was. It's not. There is one key piece of information that gets glossed over. Transitional Evidence. There is none. Anywhere. There are heaps of circumstantal evidence, but no real proof.

I'm not all that keen on Intelligent Design being taught in schools either, but I must say to the people bitching about the Bible being taught in schools... Look into it, your barking up the wrong tree. Most world religions teach some creation story. It's not just a Christian thing. They can get away with teaching it because it doesn't specifie any particular religion. There is NO seperation of Church and State. Look it up. Our government is not allowed to endorse anyone religion over any other... this doesn't.

[bean]

nevermind

[Vater Araignee]

"Religon of any kind"

Evolution should be booted as well. I can refute every aspect of that science. In my opinion, keep ALL world-origin theories out of schools until a decent solid theory is developed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Then do it right here. Refute, with evidence evolution.

There are mountains of books with all kinds of really geat research and information to read... but all of it is missing one thing... proof. Evalution is NOT a proven science. It is taught as if it was. It's not. There is one key piece of information that gets glossed over. Transitional Evidence. There is none. Anywhere. There are heaps of circumstantal evidence, but no real proof.

I'm not all that keen on Intelligent Design being taught in schools either, but I must say to the people bitching about the Bible being taught in schools... Look into it, your barking up the wrong tree. Most world religions teach some creation story. It's not just a Christian thing. They can get away with teaching it because it doesn't specifie any particular religion. There is NO seperation of Church and State. Look it up. Our government is not allowed to endorse anyone religion over any other... this doesn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Are they going to teach my version of intelligent design? You bet they wont because it differs from the countries dominant religion.

Now If they simply say "Evolution was guided by the hand of a higher power that we cant prove exists" then fine but that's not teaching any thing that's making a statement. A statement that has facts founded on opinion (oops an oxymoron) The key word opinion meaning there is not A lick of "scientific proof" that The Everything exists or is even plausible, something evolution has in its corner.

You should not teach children anything faith based unless you have at the least, a minuet scrap of scientific data suggesting it might be true.

And what do you do about the Atheists?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

By the way Biblical creationism has nothing to do with the Christians except for the fact that they scraped together the second testament, which creation is not taught in.

[Jarodaka]

Some background.

[the eternal]

There are mountains of books with all kinds of really geat research and information to read... but all of it is missing one thing... proof. Evalution is NOT a proven science. It is taught as if it was. It's not. There is one key piece of information that gets glossed over. Transitional Evidence. There is none. Anywhere. There are heaps of circumstantal evidence, but no real proof.

I'm not all that keen on Intelligent Design being taught in schools either, but I must say to the people bitching about the Bible being taught in schools... Look into it, your barking up the wrong tree. Most world religions teach some creation story. It's not just a Christian thing. They can get away with teaching it because it doesn't specifie any particular religion. There is NO seperation of Church and State. Look it up. Our government is not allowed to endorse anyone religion over any other... this doesn't.

As always, I can see where you're coming from.

But here's my problem. I don't need to look up the fact that there's no endorsement of a religion. I know that.

This is a three card monty game in a nice new advertisement slick.

You can never find where the Jesus is in their literature.

But he's there. And it's easy to see what it's about by looking at who endorses it.

All the conservative religious leaders.

I'm NOT going to play a semantics game that'll become the equivalent of "I did not have sexual relations with that woman" here.

The people behind this ARE creationists who are backdooring into the public schools by calling it Intelligent Design. Anyone that can't see that when they look at the curriculum are either

ignorant

OR

religiously/politically dogmatic

Look, I was watching Nightline and the guy said

" I personally think Jesus is the designer, but it could be anyone"

--and he's the spokesman!!

I think hed be a little more coy if he truly felt "it could be anyone".

And I'm sorry evolution is a proven science. True there is a gap in the overall theory. We may never figure out what the missing link is, but that doesn't mean there have not been countless examples that prove evolution.

Carbon dating

Shared characteristics of different species over time.

Hell, dinosour bones are part of the puzzle, since, we all know they're certainly more than 6000 years old.

There are so many things in nature, like tadpole becoming frogs, that science can prove.

The thing is with Intelligent Design, there's nothing to prove, because

IT'S A SHELL!

No studies! No trials! No shit lazy kids like it. There's nothing to learn!

And honestly the fact we should even debate the inclusion of different world religions is absurd. I mean really who cares what religion is promoted, if any?

This is a science class.

They should be learning... SCIENCE!

[Homicidalheathen]

I have never found evolution to be anti christian anyway....What is 7 days in the eye of a god? An eternity to us.....

I don't like this happening but it doesn't bother me much. I think my kids are pretty smart and will figure things out for themselves....

I was listening to some of this on NPR and it is awful...

Intelligent Design folks go under the idea that because evolution can't explain everything... what other choice do we have but to believe them...

It's like saying because we have not figured out all of theory A... then theory B must be true... Bull F**King Sh*t!!!

We live in a country that is teaching this as science for F**Ks sake. Are we asking to be totally left in the dust of other countries advancements...?

I find it insulting that because we have not figured out every aspect of a thing... that it couldn't be anthing but God... Palease....

I am not saying that there is absolutely no higher intelligence involved in the universe... but why try to be stupid? Have your faith...fine...please do, but also see what is there in front of you, and don't do it at my or my countries expense....

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Vater Araignee]

Some background.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Speaking in general terms, life can only have come from one of two possible places:

    * Spontaneous creation - Random chemical processes created the first living cell.

    * Supernatural creation - God or some other supernatural power created the first living cell.

And it doesn't really matter if aliens or meteorites brought the first living cell to earth, because the aliens would have come into existence through either spontaneous creation or supernatural creation at some point -- something had to create the first alien cells.

|-->And then somthing created its cells, and then somthing created its cells,

|...and then somthing created its cells, and then somthing created its cells,

|...and then somthing created its cells, and then somthing created its cells,

|...and then somthing created its cells, and then somthing created its cells<--|

|______________________________________________________________________________|

[the eternal]

  By their argument, we should also teach the Flying Spaghetti Monster theory too

Hilarious. It's on my favorites.

Some background.

And so is this. Thanks so much. It sure put my knowledge to shame. What I'd like to see is intelligent design at least past muster scientifically as a theory, that is to be...

a logically self-consistent model or framework describing the behaviour of a certain natural or social phenomenon formulated, developed and evaluated according to the scientific method,

thus either originating from observable facts or supported by observable facts

as opposed to just a hypothesis--

a statement which has not been tested yet.

Thats square one and then we can go from there.

[DisturbedMania]

Back about 7 or 8 years ago when I was in a public highschool we covered evolution. Upon reaching this topic my teacher simply stated we would be going over evolution, though not everyone believes in it- it is however scientifically valid. She went on to say that some people believe in a Creationism point of view that their god created the earth. And then the lessons on Evolution started. She may have left alot of things alone knowing full well she had an active Athiest (at the time) on her hands, but you could tell kids had argued with her before about evolution. Hell, the school board I spent 2 years battling with for multiple issues is made up of church activists. I almost opted to run for school board I was getting so pissed. But, now I'm really off topic.

[float]

I'm shocked and amazed

but i don't know why i'm surprised

you all hate Ohio?

lol

[kellygrrrrrl]

Science is inconculsive. Reliable, in theory, but still inconclusive.

Evolution, is creation.

Creation is evolution.

The Bible explains that "One Day" is equivilent to something like a 1milllion years....I think, maybe it's a 1000 years...can't remember, BUT there is a mathematical equasion IN the Bible that explains this... If that is the case, then I can believe that GOD made the earth in "one day", and made the sea in a day etc......

We can all agree that there is a Missing link. Somewhere between the evolution of monkey to man, there is a missing peice of info. Is this were GOD became bored with Dinosaurs becuase all they did anyway was roma the earth and eat stuff....Probably wasn't real interesting to watch from above, so he wiped them out, and created monkey men....but they were oblivious and harsh and raveges. SO he decides to get a little bit more interesting and make intellegent life....something like Me & my son who is at the right hand of me...lets make man in our image. Somewhere between the dino age, and the monkey man age, and man, there were missing links.....perhaps this is GODs way of entertaining himself? Afterall, If you were and always was, you gotta keep things interesting.

Even Albert Einstein concluded there had to be something that started this.

I have learned that the BIBLE is not literal. This context has been translated over 1000's of years. We should not be expected to understand in a literal sense. As it is not intended to be literal.

I spent many moons studying religion and the bible, and tetragrammaton, and history, and science. all together.

There is much reference to the times of Egypt and Rome in the Bible....fall of babylon, etc....

All of it is relevant. All of it goes together to form one giant theory.....in my theory.

OK.....me hide now..... :fear :fear :fear :fear :fear :fear :fear :erm

I am just me, and I tend to over think and I feel that there is more to life that Growing up, making money, livin it up, looking the best, raising kids to make the same mistakes but worse and then dying.....there HAS to be more......

Ok don't beat me :erm :fear

[kellygrrrrrl]

I should add....

Everyone wants to be individual. Everyone wants to believe they are different from everyone else.

Everybody has different "Theories" on different topics, have different views on "religion", "science", etc...When there was only ONE in the first place. Now there 1000's of different sects, religions, theories whatever.

People want to believe they were evolved from apes becuase this justifies thier animalistic behaviors. No morals, or conscience = corruption

As time goes on, people will become more and more violent and crude and careless, selfish, greedy, and eventually will become the apes we evolved from.........

I think that people should know what religion is. I think people SHOULD read the bible. It offers basic and reasonable advice, and evolutionary concepts....

Ok I'm done now....for now. :fear :erm :blink :fear

[Shade Everdark]

If it's a religious theory, it doesn't belong in a science class. Period.

Evolution is a scientific theory. It explains the evidence we have, it has been repeatedly tested, and it is widely accepted in the scientific community.

Creationism, i.e. intelligent design, explains the evidence we have, but has neither been repeatedly tested, nor has it been widely accepted in the scientific community. It stays out of science class.

[The_Dark]

OK. I just want to put one thing forward....

The Big Bang.

Widly accept Scientific Theory. One small problem... Nothing exists unless it's observed.. proven scientific fact....

Who watched the big bang?

[Guest Game of Chance]

OK. I just want to put one thing forward....

The Big Bang.

Widly accept Scientific Theory. One small problem... Nothing exists unless it's observed.. proven scientific fact....

Who watched the big bang?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And even then, once its been observed, it changes, along with the observer. At least according to Schroedinger.

[kellygrrrrrl]

Who created the big bang? Had to start from a ball of energy....where did it come from? Who put it there, how did it get there, ....

[float]

plus the bang had to come from something

or nothingness?

then how did it come?

where did it come from?

who did it come from?

I think I'm a believer in a supreme being/beings? kicking off evolution

in other words...undecided

[Jarodaka]

Evolution should be booted as well. I can refute every aspect of that science. In my opinion...

I look forward to hearing your refutations.

...keep ALL world-origin theories out of schools until a decent solid theory is developed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is a horrible idea and a dangerous standard. There are many scientific theories through the ages which were changed, disproved, or altered (oh, gravity and light, for example). Can you imagine not teaching these (in the 1800's) because they were not 'decent and solid' enough? So, sure, in the end, the theory of evolution may be disproved, but as it stands, it has stood up to observed and experimental data as well as predicted experimental outcomes. Yes, there are holes (see my previously linked to article), but that's why it is a theory and not a law.