Bestest ever "goth punk" band

[TomCat]

So many of these bands don't fit the "Gothic-Punk" label. So I Voted the Cult just to make a point.

[Guest Game of Chance]

Early Cult was commonly referred to as a goth band. They did however subsequently go mainstream. As did Gene Loves Jezebel.

I think Paperhearts is referring to the early 80's version of the band called Southern Death Cult. They toured with Bauhaus circa 1983.

They later changed their name twice, ultimately settling on the name The Cult. Reason? Image change. Sounded too much like a goth band.

[Scary Guy]

Where are The Misfits?

[Nerdcore]

sorry did not read the whole post.. shot me please

[Paper Hearts]

So many of these bands don't fit the "Gothic-Punk" label.  So I Voted the Cult just to make a point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Early Cult was commonly referred to as a goth band.  They did however subsequently go mainstream.  As did Gene Loves Jezebel.

I think Paperhearts is referring to the early 80's version of the band called Southern Death Cult.  They toured with Bauhaus circa 1983.

They later changed their name twice, ultimately settling on the name The Cult.  Reason?  Image change.  Sounded too much like a goth band.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Most people won't know Southern Death Cult, which was Ian Astbury's and Billy Duffy goth precursor to the Cult.

Basically, as the 80's progressed, the heavily synth driven new wave sound gave way to the return of guitar rock. Bands like the Smiths or the Cult were a part of this. The Cult sort of joined classic hard rock sounds to goth music. I'd say that they are more a goth band than anything else.

Where are The Misfits?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

the Misfits were part of the US hard core movement, after punk rock. Punk was an intellectual style of rock, hard core was more about simply having a hard sound. The Misfits were niether punk nor gothic.

[Paper Hearts]

Most people won't know Southern Death Cult, which was Ian Astbury's and Billy Duffy goth precursor to the Cult.

Basically, as the 80's progressed, the heavily synth driven new wave sound gave way to the return of guitar rock. Bands like the Smiths or the Cult were a part of this. The Cult sort of joined classic hard rock sounds to goth music. I'd say that they are more a goth band than anything else.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh, and don't forget that Billy Duffy (Guitar, Cult) was also a member of Theatre Of Hate. Theatre Of Hate was one of the bands that helped define goth as a seperate movement from punk rock (blank generation).

As well, Bauhaus' 1983 release Burning From The Inside, is quite a departure from Bela Lugosi's Dead (1979). On this album the band seemed equally inspired to create existensialist psychodramas as it was motivated by guitar rockers Pink Floyd. A further point of interest.

It was one of my points in creating this to show that most people wouldn't know a goth band.

And we've had Synth-pop and industrial polls, so why not?

[Paper Hearts]

I think it's safe to say that in the begining, goth was more inspired by punk. It was different, in fact, only in theme. By the time New Wave came, goth had already it's own mandate and punk began to change it's own musical motivations at the same time. I'd say that there was a brief period (somewhere in 1977, '78) where both styles were easily distinguishable for the first time because of these things.

When New Wave came about, two things happened. One, Certain bands from either genre (punk or goth) became enthusiatic to participate in that new sound. -Two, as a reaction, certain bands of either style became enthusiatic to counter it. Things like hard core sprang up (I mentioned this in talking about the Misfits earlier). Things like punk disco sprang up (referance Cyndi Lauper, Madonna, Iggy Pop's 'Wild One'). The Cure released a largely surf rock sounding album (Boys Don't Cry, their second release, 1979) containing among other offerings, the very pop 'Boys Don't Cry' song . Once again, Goth and Punk bands were some what untied and hard to tell apart and sometimes hard to tell apart from the new wave or hard core bands, as well. There was even a gothic hardcore movement, which is where we get bands like Christian Death from. -Basically what happened with rock from this point forward can mostly be described as a conundrum and that's where we've picked up such simple and general labels as 'alternative' or 'indie rock' (which has become more than a term to describe rock bands who play on independent labels, it now just as well refers to a specific movement).

Despite what the radio would like us to believe, however, there are still movements in rock and new ones appear all the time.

[phee]

the Misfits were part of the US hard core movement, after punk rock. Punk was an intellectual style of rock, hard core was more about simply having a hard sound. The Misfits were niether punk nor gothic.

In your opinion.... kinda going back to the Industrial thread here, I know.

[Paper Hearts]

So what exactly was the "New Wave" then?

Some people will argue that it is all of the above sounds, including punk, goth, hardcore, bubble gum or punk disco, etc. Some even list Television as a New Wave band (the first "punk" band to play CBGBs).

That doesn't make sense to me. While I deffinately see how goth or punk motivated new wave, new wave, to me, is a pop rock movement. It's seems like it was discernible by musicians who had participated in punk or in goth, who, as those styles became more popular, realized that with a slight amount of tweaking their sounds, they could make piles of money. I'd say that the Cure had a new wave album or two. I'd say that the Clash had a new wave album or two. I'd also say that there were also some bands who hadn't established themselves in either genre yet, who simply made new wave music.

True, to say that Television was just a punk band is terrible, but to call them a new wave band is even worse.

[phee]

To me (and this is only my opinion) Talking Heads are an example of New Wave, as well as say Big Audio Dynomite, I am by no means any sort of authority on punk.... at all.... but I have seen a lot of "punks" wearing Misfists stuff... and well I dunno... The Banshees are the most centralized "goth punk" I know of.

So what exactly was the "New Wave" then?

Some people will argue that it is all of the above sounds, including punk, goth, hardcore, bubble gum or punk disco, etc. Some even list Television as a New Wave band (the first "punk" band to play CBGBs).

That doesn't make sense to me. While I deffinately see how goth or punk motivated new wave, new wave, to me, is a pop rock movement. It's seems like it was discernible by musicians who had participated in punk or in goth, who, as those styles became more popular, realized that with a slight amount of tweaking their sounds, they could make piles of money. I'd say that the Cure had a new wave album or two. I'd say that the Clash had a new wave album or two. I'd also say that there were also some bands who hadn't established themselves in either genre yet, who simply made new wave music.

True, to say that Television was just a punk band is terrible, but to call them a new wave band is even worse.

[the eternal]

Oh I fricking love lists.

Keep em coming Phee/PH

OK so it should come as no surprise, I picked Joy Division. (the eternal, please)

But it was tough. Second was The Cure for their longevity and ability to stay goth while permutating so much AND

of course because they're unbelievable.

Smiths/Morissey--Are they not Goth?? Mope rock??

How bout Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds??

I probably wouldve traded out groups like the Stranglers and The Cult who are more punk/post punk.

Who was I looking for????

Echo and the Bunnymen.

Type O Negative

THE CHURCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If you've got the Furs, you need the Church.

Great 80s new wave goth.

Everyone go buy Starfish right now. (has their hits Under the Milky way and Reptile)

Also, I would've put in Peter Murphy solo.

Everyone buy Deep and Holy Smoke right now (has hits Cuts You Up and Sweetest Drop)

Wow you're really sticking it to me by making me choose between Bauhaus and Joy Division. 

are there really any other options?  :fear  :grin

Bauhaus it is.

Tough call indeed!

Am I the only one who voted for the Furs? What the Hell is wrong with you people? :blink

The Furs are awesome! Hopefully youll get a couple more people on your side

So many of these bands don't fit the "Gothic-Punk" label.  So I Voted the Cult just to make a point.

Early Cult was commonly referred to as a goth band.  They did however subsequently go mainstream.  As did Gene Loves Jezebel.

I think Paperhearts is referring to the early 80's version of the band called Southern Death Cult.  They toured with Bauhaus circa 1983.

They later changed their name twice, ultimately settling on the name The Cult.  Reason?  Image change.  Sounded too much like a goth band.

Yeah, I had a little problem with them since most of us know them from Sonic Temple. So, in essence you're pitting a rock band against a goth band.

If we do that, we should include Paradise Lost who

A are more gothy than Cult and

B released an album called Paradise Lost in the early 90s which is one part Metallica and one part Sisters of Mercy.

AND

Dead Can Dance

Am I the only one who owns their amazing 1st album? (self-titled with a wooden sculpture on the cover)

Very goth, indeed

[Paper Hearts]

To me (and this is only my opinion) Talking Heads are an example of New Wave, as well as say Big Audio Dynomite, I am by no means any sort of authority on punk.... at all.... but I have seen a lot of "punks" wearing Misfists stuff... and well I dunno... The Banshees are the most centralized "goth punk" I know of.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, that's not a bad assertion...

You might be surprised to find out though, that the Talking Heads were also one of the first rock bands to play at CBGBs. They played bills with the Ramones and Patti Smith.

Their music did change somewhat, however, into a more dance-able sound with the end of the 1970s. It was at that time that half of the Talking Heads split off to form the Tom Tom club, as well.

Big Audio Dynamite to me was another guitar rock resurgence type of band. I think of them as being more a reaction against the poppy and often synthasized sounds of "new wave" rather than a part of it.

Duran Duran is a new wave band to me. Do you remember the Power Station? The power station contained Duran Duran's guitar player (Andy Taylor?). He split from Duran Duran for a while because he wanted to make harder, more guitar driven rock. Power Station is another example of the guitar rock resurgence as a reaction against new wave.

[Brenda Starrr]

Furs. Say it with me, people: F-u-r-s. Furrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrs.

[Paper Hearts]

Furs. Say it with me, people: F-u-r-s. Furrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, I might list the Phsychedelic Furs as my second favortie, after the Cure. Not that I think they were as important as Bauhaus or Siouxsie and the Banshees but just that I kind of like their sound better...well sometimes, anyway.

[the eternal]

I love their way

[Paper Hearts]

Smiths/Morissey--Are they not Goth??  Mope rock??

How bout Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds?? 

I probably wouldve traded out groups like the Stranglers and The Cult who are more punk/post punk. 

Who was I looking for????

Echo and the Bunnymen.

Type O Negative

THE CHURCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Also, I would've put in Peter Murphy solo. 

Dead Can Dance

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The Smiths? Essentially, the Smiths were pop band. Yes they were mopey at times, but I'd say that the themes of their songs also had a great sense of humor. In short, they aren't dark enough to be considered goth.

The Smiths were also an indie rock band, perhaps the greatest indie band ever.

Yes, their music seems poppy, but you have to realize that at the time their songs were new, they were the opposite of what was on the radio, the mainstream. They were not synth driven, however, they were not a macho guitar band, either although they contained probably the best guitar player of the 80's, Johnny Marr, a guitar player who never played a solo. As a result, the Smiths, as a pop band, never achieved greater than #55 on the US album charts. In Great Britain, they were a bit more popular, but they were the band your parents didn't want you listening to. not the Exploited, not the Misfits.

Nick Cave started in the punk band the Birthday Party. Nick Cave & The Bad Seeds is Nick's solo work. He became more inspired by the singer/songwriter movement through artists like Tom Waits and I'd say that his music fits more into that catergory. It is sometimes dark.

The Stranglers were quite actually one of the first goth bands. when goth was new, it's sound was pretty hard to distinguish from the sound of punk, but it's themes are different. they are more Existensialist and dark rather than raw angst and rebellion.

I've already explained my inclusion of the Cult, above.

As for Type O Negative (*pukes*) they are more of a metal or industrail band who liked goth chicks.

The Church I'd list as one of the new Wave bands who were simply inspired by goth, rather than being a proper goth band.

Peter Murhpy...Well I figured I already had him with Bauhaus, plus on some of his later solo albums his style changed quite a bit from goth.

Echo and the Bunnymen were a psychedelic/revival, sort of reaction against new wave thing. Sure, they could probably list Ian Curtis as one of their muses, but that doesn't automatically make them goth.

Nice choice w/ Joy Division, BTW.

[Scary Guy]

to PH: Ok, as far as the Misfits go, you're dead wrong. They could fit into the deathrock group too I guess.

As far as the look and lyrical content go, they meet ALL THE REQUIREMENTS of gothic. I left out samhain and danzing because at that point he was more metal.

As far as punk goes, they meet all (my) requirements for that. Which are non overproduced (think blink 182 and the like) bad sounds in the right places, pure, loud, adreneline fuled agression, put to music by people who can actualy play instruments but don't try very hard to do so.

Type O counts as a punk/metal band in their early years just after the demise of Carnivore and Peter's park service when they were first created and cut a few albums. October Rust and Bloody Kisses again meet all the requirements of gothic music (some of it bordering on chamber music which is the most gothic you can get i think). If you want to call them gothic metal, I gues thats fine and thats where I catagorize them myself (but less so than say Cradle of Filth which is black metal and its own beast).

to everyone: A lot of the other bands listed here... Well let me just say you hit more on the mark saying apop was industrial. I just knew i was going to be sorry even reading this poll. I'm scared to view the results.

To put Peter Murphy in there? NO, maybe with Bauhaus as PH said.

Best ever "goth punk" band

When I think of "goth punk" I think of the following

45 Grave

Alien Sex Fiend

The Astrovamps

Bauhaus

Bella Morte (newer works since thats what they're moving into)

Bloody Dead and Sexy

Christian Death

The Cramps (rockabilly/punk)

Current 93

The Gothic Archies (very campy to boot)

The Graveyard Bats

Joy Division (yes it fits here, not exactly in industrial but it's a grey area)

Killing Joke (more goth rock than goth punk though)

Lake of Dracula

Mephisto Waltz

The Misfits

The New York Dolls (boarders heavy on punk, very little on goth though)

Nina Hagen

red lorry yellow lorry

Shock Therapy

Siouxie/Creatures

Sisters of Mercy (only because Eldrich claimed they weren't goth, but everyone else claimed they were).

Skeletal Family

Sneaky Bat Machine

Southern Death Cult

Speciman

Tones on Tail

The Virgin Prunes

Two Witches

Wire

Yeah it's a nice list. Note all the bands have at least one song that I can think of that fits into both gothic and punk catagories.

Though I could name off some darker punk songs that are pretty goth, it still doesn't count (exampe, Suicidal Tendancies - I Saw Your Mommy)

[Paper Hearts]

to PH: Ok,  as far as the Misfits go, you're dead wrong.  They could fit into the deathrock group too I guess.

As far as the look and lyrical content go, they meet ALL THE REQUIREMENTS of gothic.  I left out samhain and danzing because at that point he was more metal.

As far as punk goes, they meet all (my) requirements for that.  Which are non overproduced (think blink 182 and the like) bad sounds in the right places, pure, loud, adreneline fuled agression, put to music by people who can actualy play instruments but don't try very hard to do so.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Firstly, "goth punk" is just another term for goth. I'm trying to be proper, so I'm refering to it by the first name it had.

Secondly, you have to realize that sadness and darkeness existed before goth rock. you also have to take into account that before goth rock, there were even sad songs, and even sad rock songs but that does not make any band who had one, a goth band. Goth is a movement, it is an ism. I could say that Oscar Kakashka was an Impressionist, but it doesn't make it so. You have to understand that goth rock, punk rock, Impressionist painting, whatever the art movement, there are certain philosophys behind them which define them.

the Misfits fit none of the requirements of goth or punk. The Misfits might have even thought that they were punk and they may have fooled a lot of people, but that doesn't make them punk. In other words there are certain facts you have to both know about and take into account before you can properly catergorize things or yourself.

Punk rock, for the British was sort of the "hooligan" reaction against Thatcherism. In America, it was a reaction against the government, it was a reaction against the hippies, in short, it was a music for the disaffected. The Misfits, while deffinately inspired by punk rockers, were a reaction against new wave pop. They wanted to sound like punk, but they weren't the intellectuals that that the punks were. They were simply trying to sound hard-they were part of the hardcore movement. "I want your skull" is not a very goth theme, either.

What I found incorrect with your list:

the Cramps--they are psychobilly, not goth

Current 93--the are industrail, not goth

The Misfits--they are a hardcore band, not goth

New York Dolls--they were not even punk, they were sort of the precursors to punk, like David Bowie, very decadent rock and roll kind of thing, not goth.

Red lorry yellow lorry--they are synth-pop, not goth

Wire--they were a arty punk band, not goth

Bands who I had not already listed that I would consider adding to my list if I were aloud to list more than 20 choices in a poll, whom you listed:

45Grave

Anything else you listed is either not goth or not important enough to be in a top 20 poll, not mine, anyway. But I'll give you 45 Grave if you want them over all of the bands I listed for best goth band.

[Scary Guy]

I'm not voting in the poll, I'm arguing, there is a difference.

I still also think you're wrong. It's not about art movements, it's how they fit into catagories and what gives them their sound.

Mine might not be the original term but it's the more modern accepted deffinition. Though if you want to live in the past thats your choice. Obviously as time moves on our deffitions change, as does history sometimes.

As far as the term gothic goes, there is no original term. Gothic has evolved past punk gothic into actual gothic which is more folk oriented.

I'd take the time to completely prove you wrong. But I'm starting not to care and I have to get ready for tonight where I'll play my non goth music.

Though I will admit that some of the bands are multi-genre.

[the eternal]

I'm really enjoying how intense this is getting.

Goth is about getting depressed and not caring wtf,

remember? =)

[Paper Hearts]

lol

[Paper Hearts]

It's just that I make a poll, fill it with as many choices as possible and even though no one could really dispute that all bands I listed should be there, people complain.

You ask me for more bands and I explain why I could not include them and people get offended. It's ridiculous. You think you're alowed your own interpretation of what this or that is but i am not on my own poll? Please.

I'm not just choosing bands because they had a sad song or wore black...

Look, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but you have to understand that there are facts that exist regardless of anyone's point of view and that because of facts, some opinions are wrong and some are right.

You list bands as far from goth and from as broad a range as the Cramps, Current 93,The Misfits, the New York Dolls, Red Lorry Yellow Lorry, and Wire and claim to be an athority? I mean come on.

And how many bands did you name that I already had? I just counted 9. so 9, plus your 6 incorrectly identified, above, plus 45 Grave is 16. We're only allowed to post 20 options per poll.

[Scary Guy]

I don't get how you confused

"When I think of "goth punk" I think of the following"

with

"ADD THESE TO THE POLL NOW NOW NOW DO IT NOW NOW NOW guriahgrueahger hi"

I went through my gothic directory, picked out all the ones that I thought had a bit of a punk sound to them and posted that list.

Also I happen to think I know just a tad more because most of the day I'm listining to music, that is really all I do, and I'm good at it. They have a sound and style where I'd say they're "goth punk".

The cramps are Gothabilly, which is a cross of gothic and psychabilly. Other bands that fit this genre are The Nekromantix and the like. This can also be known as monster surf rock.

Current 93, take a listen to "Black Flowers Please" and tell me thats more industrial sounding than it is gothic sounding.

I explained the misfits already

I don't even know why I'm going over this again. Another good quote of mine from the previous post.

"Note all the bands have at least one song that I can think of that fits into both gothic and punk catagories."

BTW I forgot The Velvet Underground. I really don't know how that happened

[Paper Hearts]

I said "goth punk" becuase I thought It would make it clear to people if I did so, that I did not mean NIN, or anything else that people confuse for goth, because goth industrial, synth-pop, all that gets lumped into one group, lately, and it's confusing. I want what is accurately goth and nothing else.

the Cramps, in fact, invented "psycho-billy". It was their genre.

Current 93 might have had some songs with goth themes but they are essentially an industrail band which is why I didn't list them. Depeche Mode had some gothy themes too, but they are still synth-pop, for instance.

If the Misfits were a goth band then there was no such thing.

The Velvet Underground were very obviously a pop band. They were the baby of Andy Warhol who of course, was the father of the pop movement. They were pop, proper.

With 45 Grave you listed a goth band that I did not include and I said you could have them. That's fair enough. what more can I do?

And I own a record player, too, it's no big deal.

[Guest Game of Chance]

Dude, why aren't the Olsen Twins listed? I think I saw Mary Kate dress punk rock once...and Ashley is so gawth. Plus, aren't they in a band?? :fear :laughing