Charma Shmarma

[Homicidalheathen]

Ok so I have had a very long amazing spiritual journey in life but.......

I am questioning everything now.

As for visions..........you know that scientists can induce after death experiences by touching a part of the brain? Ever wonder if every spiritual experience you ever had was just a fluke or self hypnosis?

Now onto the whole charma thing. If you don't believe in past lives.......how can this even work? I see people who are basically just mean shits their whole lives get away with murder practically.........then I see nice people struggle and go through all kinds of crap. So then I watch these science programs and even physically it seems the universe is born out of chaos and distruction. No set order or disorder......random events.

I am just wondering sometimes if my human ego won't let me let go of my beliefs that there is more to it than that.

So what do you think........charma and order rule our destiny or is it just chance, chaos.......random events.

And if so then is it wrong to do what is right for you if it hurts others? Isn't this why we have religeon in the first place.......to answer our own questions and keep us in check?

I am just sick of seeing good people go through so much crap........sickness........loss of jobs........

And nasty people get all the breaks. Like they are being rewarded almost.

I am sorry but the thought of everything being random and chaotic depresses me.

[Goth Brooks]

I believe that Sir Newton's Third Law of Physics; "Every Action has an Equal and Opposite Reaction", applies to more aspects of life than just physics. I also believe in Murphy's Law. Along with my father's basic philosophy of "Think before I do.", I try to keep myself on the straight and narrow with these 3 tenets in life.

[Fierce Critter]

I really like what GB just said there. I agree with it.

I live my life, not in fear of Karma, but respectful of it. I believe in it. I do believe that if I hurt someone else, it's gonna come back to me somehow.

In many ways, it's a cop-out, self-absorbed way to run your life. NOT hurting someone just 'cause you don't want YOURSELF hurt. I can look at it as selfish in that way.

But if it keeps someone from hurting someone else, then that's all good.

I believe that we don't always see or know how karma is coming down on someone. I'm not sure I believe in past lives or reincarnation. I don't disbelieve any of it. But I would like to think those that have "it coming to them" 'get' it while they're still here.

And I don't think karma is the reason for EVERYTHING. I don't think everyone who gets sick is being plagued due to something bad they did. Sometimes, people just plain get sick. No cause or effect other than the germs that invaded them and the symptoms they produce.

[Homicidalheathen]

Ok so these hippie philosophical people say the butterfly wings wind grows to be a torent by the time it hits the shore across the water......ha.

Are you saying all is just cause and effect?

[Homicidalheathen]

Yah me too, but I think (thank whatever) that me brain is not too fucked up. I suffer guilt when I do something I conceive as bad.

But what is bad to me might be ok to say a serial killer.

And what is good to me is seen as 'sin' to a christian.

So who's right?

At what point do you draw the line?

Soldiers at war ect.........

I really like what GB just said there. I agree with it.

I live my life, not in fear of Karma, but respectful of it. I believe in it. I do believe that if I hurt someone else, it's gonna come back to me somehow.

In many ways, it's a cop-out, self-absorbed way to run your life. NOT hurting someone just 'cause you don't want YOURSELF hurt. I can look at it as selfish in that way.

But if it keeps someone from hurting someone else, then that's all good.

I believe that we don't always see or know how karma is coming down on someone. I'm not sure I believe in past lives or reincarnation. I don't disbelieve any of it. But I would like to think those that have "it coming to them" 'get' it while they're still here.

And I don't think karma is the reason for EVERYTHING. I don't think everyone who gets sick is being plagued due to something bad they did. Sometimes, people just plain get sick. No cause or effect other than the germs that invaded them and the symptoms they produce.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Fierce Critter]

Yah me too, but I think (thank whatever) that me brain is not too fucked up.  I suffer guilt when I do something I conceive as bad.

But what is bad to me might be ok to say a serial killer.

And what is good to me is seen as 'sin' to a christian.

So who's right?

At what point do you draw the line?

Soldiers at war ect.........

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good questioning.

For me, the guideline is, "does it hurt someone else directly".

Stealing something from my neighbor hurts them directly. Maybe they're short on money. Having to replace what I stole could break their back budget-wise. That would suck, and I'd deserve what I get in return.

Likewise, hurting someone physically, belittling someone, lying about someone, etc. All no-no's to me, just a tiny few.

The soldier thing is a big quandry for me. I'm very, very glad Jon is physically unable to serve in a combat capacity 'cause of physical problems, so he'd never have to make that decision. But that's a cop-out. If he had to pick up arms and fight, I'd be hard-pressed to judge him, though I'd wish he wouldn't.

Likewise, I don't fault ANY of the soldiers currently in Iraq, even though I don't support the cause. They're doing what they are called on to do, and I respect that. I just wish they didn't have to. I don't understand people who say that if I'm against the Iraq war, I'm somehow anti-troop. That's such bullshit. I respect them for following orders they believe are made in order for them to defend our country, even if I think those orders are ill-founded.

I just think the bottom line is if you have a choice of actions, you'd best go with that which doesn't affect anyone else negatively. If you have a choice and you choose that which hurts someone, you've got it coming to you.

[Goth Brooks]

Actually I forgot a few:

"Prepare for the worst, hope for the best." - learned that one the hard way.. two hurricanes in two weeks.

"One for the boat, one for your self." - always be mindful of where you are and what you're doing.

"Never piss off the leeward rail." - i.e. "Don't spit into the wind." ... i learned this one literally.. not fun.

[Homicidalheathen]

Ok so what if by chance, you derive from your own conclusions that it is not a just war. But you join for college benefits rather than sell your ass.

Is that bad?

Or you steel from a franchise. Can you assume it is ok to take from said owners oh say, vacation in the bahamas to eat for one day?

What if said vaca had this profound spiritual effect on said persons life......more than you would know in a whole life time.

Is it worth it?

Good questioning.

For me, the guideline is, "does it hurt someone else directly".

Stealing something from my neighbor hurts them directly. Maybe they're short on money. Having to replace what I stole could break their back budget-wise. That would suck, and I'd deserve what I get in return.

Likewise, hurting someone physically, belittling someone, lying about someone, etc. All no-no's to me, just a tiny few.

The soldier thing is a big quandry for me. I'm very, very glad Jon is physically unable to serve in a combat capacity 'cause of physical problems, so he'd never have to make that decision. But that's a cop-out. If he had to pick up arms and fight, I'd be hard-pressed to judge him, though I'd wish he wouldn't.

Likewise, I don't fault ANY of the soldiers currently in Iraq, even though I don't support the cause. They're doing what they are called on to do, and I respect that. I just wish they didn't have to. I don't understand people who say that if I'm against the Iraq war, I'm somehow anti-troop. That's such bullshit. I respect them for following orders they believe are made in order for them to defend our country, even if I think those orders are ill-founded.

I just think the bottom line is if you have a choice of actions, you'd best go with that which doesn't affect anyone else negatively. If you have a choice and you choose that which hurts someone, you've got it coming to you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[unchaste]

I think a lot of things are simply born of random chance. But I also think that what goes around, comes around. But that's just me.

[Fierce Critter]

Ok so what if by chance, you derive from your own conclusions that it is not a just war.  But you join for college benefits rather than sell your ass.

Is that bad?

Or you steel from a franchise.  Can you assume it is ok to take from said owners oh say, vacation in the bahamas to eat for one day?

What if said vaca had this profound spiritual effect on said persons life......more than you would know in a whole life time.

Is it worth it?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm no buddha/ghandi/Mr. Spock, and I could be full of complete and total shit. But here's how I see these things.

If you join the military for ANY reason, you have to know you may end up killing. If killing is against your core values, you have to weigh killing vs. college. It's up to the person to determine which core value trumps the other. Sometimes there will be conflict.

In my eyes? Going to college, when you get to basics, benefits only yourself directly. You don't harm anyone but yourself directly by going or not going to college. If you join the military, you have a good chance of having to kill. To me, it seems pretty simple. If you don't have a problem with killing for your country and you need college - join the military. If you do have a problem with killing - period - find a different way to pay for college or find a way to live without it.

But that's going to be a different call for different people. I cannot claim to speak for anyone else.

I think if you try to take the concept of karma too much beyond direct cause-and-effect, you stretch it too thin. The vacation idea has crossed my own mind in one way or another, but if you take it too far, you'll end up sitting by yourself, in a room, afraid to make a move of any kind for fear of waving that butterfly wing.

I think it needs to be kept simple. I think it, by nature, is. For instance, gay marriage does not in any way have a direct negative effect on ANYONE. I don't care what the bible says - nobody suffers direct harm as the result of a man kissing & loving another man. Now, you can say that some people, who believe such acts are "sinful" indirectly suffer as a result. They may be bothered. They may become nervous, uncomfortable or downright unhinged at the thought of someone else damning themselves to hell by going against the bible. That's indirect bad karma - you're making a Christian uncomfortable, so bad on you.

But come on - how far are you going to take it? Are you going to stop wearing the color red because someone, somewhere in the world might be phobic of the color red and you might come across them someday?

[cptdeath]

you don't know how fate works?

well theres good and evil on two opposite sides. but at some point they meet like a ying yang sign and they are one whole thing. fate keeps it from ovelaping right in front of you every day.

if you work for the side of good or the side of evil you will accomplish little but fuck yourself.

fate is my boy, were friends we work free lance usually together. not for one side or they other good or evil

don't get me wrong i still got alot of friends on the dark side. i just don't like to be controlled by evil or good.

KARMA look at it like this. if what you do comes back to you then whatever you do to someone else must deserve it or else it would'nt of happened to them. so kick someone in the face and feel good about it cause your helping fate give that someone the karma they earned.

man, fate will look out for you if you look out for fate. good or evil will leave you hanging when ever times get to tough.

fight for good your whole life and when you get surrounded by evil and evil's pissed cause you been fucking with em your whole life you'll look over your shoulder to find good half way down the block talking some shit about "we'll allways remember your sacrifice".

same with evil work hard to do evil and when the forces of good roll up all pissed who's got your back? oh not evil.

but see if you roll with fate and not try to play good guy bad guy then you'll have friends on both sides of the fence.

yeah if your evil you can still fight on the side of good and be trusted.

what you should do is exist were your supposed to exist so all of the peices fall into place. whats cool about fate is you just know. you controling your own decissions is all fate will ask of you. just because fate is to kind to ask you for a favor doesn't mean it doesn't need your help sometimes.

karma is one thing but good and evil are something else.

[cptdeath]

or if you join the army you should think i could be killed. accept that you will die eventually then sign up think of what your willing to lose first. personnely i live in poverty and see a way out. though i don't mind dying I can't imagine what a harrable thing losing me would be to put all the people around me through that is something i would regret. think of who is affected by your decission and how.

i look at life like this. Don't do things you would regret. you have the oppertunity to take it all back before you ever did it by not doing it.

try to live without regret.