Jesus was so goth, and so is the bible

[Onyx]

(Please note I am not poking fun at anyone's religion - just in a goofy mood) and even if you consider Jesus as a historical figure - he said he was "a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief."

I often read Ecclesiastes - just my favorite passages anywhere in the bible and the poetry is beautiful.

I was reading this last night and just thought to myself "wow, how goth" and started giggling out loud

"It is better to go to a house of mourning

than to go to a house of feasting,

for death is the destiny of every man;

the living should take this to heart." Ecclesiastes 7:2

[paradox]

well, he DID rise from the dead...

i mean, ya dont get much more goth than that... :whistling

[Onyx]

Yes. and this writer must have been the original shoegazer. Woe is he!

Ecclesiastes 4

Again I looked and saw all the oppression that was taking place under the sun:

I saw the tears of the oppressed—

and they have no comforter;

power was on the side of their oppressors—

and they have no comforter.

And I declared that the dead,

who had already died,

are happier than the living,

who are still alive.

But better than both

is he who has not yet been,

who has not seen the evil

that is done under the sun.

[gothicmom]

=)

[DarkVampire]

well, he DID rise from the dead...

i mean, ya dont get much more goth than that... :whistling

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sounds like an undead aka Vampire.

[kellygrrrrrl]

I've seen the evil done under the sun.

[Paper Hearts]

I just can't get passed the fact that it's completely full of shit.

[Brenda Starrr]

What, that Jesus was goth? Or the whole Bible thing?

[Paper Hearts]

The bible.

[Crazed Vampyress]

I just can't get passed the fact that it's completely full of shit.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

The bible would be great if it was more historically accurate instead of being written from such a limited point of view. The truth, unfortunately, lies in the hand of the writer was the whole take on that.

well, he DID rise from the dead...

i mean, ya dont get much more goth than that... :whistling

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

haha! Much True!! every little goth's first fancies include the rising dead at some point.

[Paper Hearts]

Well no, it's completely whacked is what I mean. And aside from it so often contradicting itself, like God is all knowing and all seeing, yet you need to pray and go to church. Or like God is all knowing and all powerful and supposedly created us and then blames us for our imperfections. I mean, nobody asked to be put here, in the first place.

What I refer to is that we know that say like Buddha was a real man. We also know that Buddha lived many years before when the bible insists that the earth was created. We also know of other cultures and religions that came before Buddha. I believe that Buddhism, and those other religions are BS, too...but with Christianity one can say that they 'know' it is full of shit rather than simply believing it to be full of shit, just because so much of Christianity, corner stone principals, have been disproved. I mean technically we've not proven there is no tooth fairy, either, but...I mean nobody claims the tooth fairy created the Earth so many years after when we know there were already other people with their own tooth fairy legends existing.

[Paper Hearts]

Evil is done in the world. No shit.

I don't need an instruction manual to figure that out.

I see it everyday on television in these holy wars between Christians and Jewish and Muslims.

[Head Wreck]

not me

when i die i intent to catch up on much needed sleep, any fuckler wakes me up is in for a beating with a haddock

[Moonlight_Phantasy]

Hmmmm.....the Bible does make me wonder, though. Perhaps there was a true Bible, but when it was handwritten to make copies throughout the ages the priests decided to make up some things and put their own ideas also. But then again, I have no idea..............But I must admit the Bible is intriguing. Its got war stories and everything in it.

[Head Wreck]

i have a handwritten bible.

fecking thing is HEAWGE! and very delecate (family heirloom, centuries old).

thank god for modern printing press and really thin paper

[Paper Hearts]

Well, if you know that in it's present form it's senseless and at the same time, you have no idea what the real truth could be, then what is the point of following it? And what's more, what is the point of trying to make others follow it?

Darwin's an Origin of Species is intriguing too and if you have no problem believeing in immaculate conception and miracles then evolution should be easy for you. It could change your life.

Oh but it's just as arrogant to go believing in Darwin whole heartedly too.

[Blackmail]

Well no, it's completely whacked is what I mean. And aside from it so often contradicting itself, like God is all knowing and all seeing, yet you need to pray and go to church. Or like God is all knowing and all powerful and supposedly created us and then blames us for our imperfections. I mean, nobody asked to be put here, in the first place.

What I refer to is that we know that say like Buddha was a real man. We also know that Buddha lived many years before when the bible insists that the earth was created. We also know of other cultures and religions that came before Buddha. I believe that Buddhism, and those other religions are BS, too...but with Christianity one can say that they 'know' it is full of shit rather than simply believing it to be full of shit, just because so much of Christianity, corner stone principals, have been disproved. I mean technically we've not proven there is no tooth fairy, either, but...I mean nobody claims the tooth fairy created the Earth so many years after when we know there were already other people with their own tooth fairy legends existing.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually there is quite a debate in the Christian community about the age of the earth (old earth versus new earth) and the interptretation of Anno Domini Nostri Iesu Christi/Ante Christum Natum.

We don't really know if Buddha existed before Jesus Christ because carbon dating is only 100% reliable up to 2,000 years - I think (please correct me if I am wrong) and some of the artifacts that are dated to be up to 20,000 years old are debated upon by scientist about their true age.

Note: I am not a scientist and am merely relating info I have read. Feel free to challenge the accuracy of my opinion above.

[Paper Hearts]

There is a debate in Christianity because what the bible insists, has been disproved. It's just people who don't want to face it.

We do 'know' of other societies existing before when the bible says the Earth was created regardless of carbon dating because we know of the societies that the bible speaks of and have found evidence of others that the bible does not mention in those same areas and we know they did not come since because there were other things going on that are documented. That's proof and that's how we know Buddha existed and Hinduism, before Buddhism. Of course there were other religions before those, as well.

[Steven]

Actually there is quite a debate in the Christian community about the age of the earth (old earth versus new earth) and the interptretation of Anno Domini Nostri Iesu Christi/Ante Christum Natum. 

We don't really know if Buddha existed before Jesus Christ because carbon dating is only 100% reliable up to 2,000 years - I think (please correct me if I am wrong) and some of the artifacts that are dated to be up to 20,000 years old are debated upon by scientist about their true age.   

Note: I am not a scientist and am merely relating info I have read.  Feel free to challenge the accuracy of my opinion above.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Carbon Dating isint even that reliable Bud.

If the artifact being dated has been exposed to an environment akin to fire, then the carbon levels have been affected.

Back then trash was burned.

Bodies were burned.

Cities were burned.

Bodily refuse was burned.

And other things.....burned (no fire departments around).

I'm not a big fan of carbon dating. Its popular and taken as "factual" - yet it has its share of controversy too....

[Msterbeau]

Evil is done in the world. No shit.

I don't need an instruction manual to figure that out.

I see it everyday on television in these holy wars between Christians and Jewish and Muslims.

XTC say it pretty well for me.

Dear god,

Hope you got the letter,

And I pray you can make it better down here.

I don’t mean a big reduction in the price of beer,

But all the people that you made in your image,

See them starving on their feet,

’cause they don’t get enough to eat

From god,

I can’t believe in you.

Dear god,

Sorry to disturb you,

But I feel that I should be heard loud and clear.

We all need a big reduction in amount of tears,

And all the people that you made in your image,

See them fighting in the street,

’cause they can’t make opinions meet,

About god,

I can’t believe in you.

Did you make disease, and the diamond blue?

Did you make mankind after we made you?

And the devil too!

Dear god,

Don’t know if you noticed,

But your name is on a lot of quotes in this book.

Us crazy humans wrote it, you should take a look,

And all the people that you made in your image,

Still believing that junk is true.

Well I know it ain’t and so do you,

Dear god,

I can’t believe in,

I don’t believe in,

I won’t believe in heaven and hell.

No saints, no sinners,

No devil as well.

No pearly gates, no thorny crown.

You’re always letting us humans down.

The wars you bring, the babes you drown.

Those lost at sea and never found,

And it’s the same the whole world ’round.

The hurt I see helps to compound,

That the father, son and holy ghost,

Is just somebody’s unholy hoax,

And if you’re up there you’ll perceive,

That my heart’s here upon my sleeve.

If there’s one thing I don’t believe in...

It’s you,

Dear god.

[Shade Everdark]

What about other methods of dating an object?

There is more than just carbon-14 dating out there.

[Steven]

There is a debate in Christianity because what the bible insists, has been disproved. It's just people who don't want to face it.

We do 'know' of other societies existing before when the bible says the Earth was created regardless of carbon dating because we know of the societies that the bible speaks of and have found evidence of others that the bible does not mention in those same areas and we know they did not come since because there were other things going on that are documented. That's proof and that's how we know Buddha existed and Hinduism, before Buddhism. Of course there were other religions before those, as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this is rather thin argument for me Paper Hearts - because ultiamtely you have to individually place faith in what you beleive certain peoiple are saying about the Bible, and carbon dating, and what you think the Bible is utilizing for a timeline, and ultimately, what yo beleive the Bible itself is saying and why.

The bible in and of itself was/is created for a purpose. Whos - we may disagree on. But the purpose of the Bible was/is not to satisfy mankind's physical legacy on the earth - but to outline his spiritual legacy and future. I find many people arguing about what was never seemingly important nor intended by the biblical writers themselves.

Interesting (to me at least) however - that despite its popular dismissal this day and age - it remains the msot persecuted book and the number one best seller of all time in the history of the planet. No other "spiritual" books can compare itsel;f to the bible in regard to overall world impact. Same thing with this Jesus fellow. No other spiritual leader in such a short time was able to make, nor can contiunue to impact - so many lives in such profound ways. Despite all of the alleged falsehoods and contradictions (all of which have been explained away and again - require faith to either accept or refute) one cannot argue the IMPACT. The impact - is huge.

Which then leads me to wonder why?

Why? and How? If its all just a bunch of bullshit - how does it continue to sustain itself? Why not some other religeous book?

Its impact in my personal life and marriage and sobriety and purpose and identity and calling and strength and resiliency and creativenss and passion has also been huge. And I used to be an agnostic who didint want any of thsoe small minded jesus freaks in my house. I warned my wife about that time and time again.

Amazing what a dusty old book can do, and amazing how so many people can simply discredit it and categorize those who may embrace it, even if their lives bear fruit because of it.

Steven

[Paper Hearts]

Steven,

I never mentioned carbon dating as a means for proving the Bible defunct. What I utilize are principals in the book itself. The Bible clearly states that the age of the Earth is less than 10,000 years old. We know of the civilizations that the bible speaks of from times near when it claims the Earth, as we know it, began, because we've found artifacts and ruins from these peoples. We've also found evidence of different cultures in those same places that we know didn't come since...because of texts like the bible documenting other cultures there, and we've found and dated their artifacts and ruins. Consequently, the carbon dating on artifacts from societies that Bible alleges existed at points during the last 10,000 years corresponds with the timeline the Bible claims (just a point in passing, since someone mentioned carbon dating). So, beyond the contradictions the bible makes in it's guiding philosophies that essentially render it useless, you also have this physical evidence which proves it to be no more than so many lies. For whatever purpose it was written, is therefore unimportant.

I think it's interesting that the bible is so popular too. I think it' so "persecuted" because it's been shown to be so far fetched and yet it still has so many followers. Basically, the message in the bible is one of fear and that's why so many people stick to it.

My parents are Christian. I used to think like you do, believe it or not. And I've had troubles in my life as well, and I've come through all of them.

[Steven]

I respect that dude - and you as well. Yes there is alot of fear in the Bible, this is true. There is also alot of love and empowerment and the teaching of being self sacrificial....but sadly that seems to get put aside. We all have to make our choices and respect one anothers. Personally - I feel that I became much stronger and much more able to connect with other people once I embraced the model of Christ.

As for the earth's age thing....that's open to interpretation and we both know that "God" only refers to one day being as a thousand years to man in order to make a point on his being far beyond our grasp of conception. The Bible itslef gives no literal date to earths inception and again, because it was never the point nor was it important to the

author(s) The point was to begin with the man to God relationship itself and build the history forward from there.

[Steven]

Forgot to add:

but its far from Useless my friend. Far from it. It is a wonderful, powerful, mystical, thing. It is precious to me.