San Francisco voters approve handgun

[HipsterDufus]

Lets move back to talking about cool stuff like guns and military etc... even banning things and rights... enough religious stuff.... unless you want to discuss Zhukolicism

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'm pretty much a social libertarian, though I'm an economic liberal. If people want sex, guns, drugs, abortions, etc. let 'em have 'em. We've all got to have our fun somehow.

What do you guys think of this? You can probably already guess that I would be for it in America.

[Jarodaka]

Zhukolicism? Do I get a gun?

[Msterbeau]

Lets move back to talking about cool stuff like guns and military etc... even banning things and rights... enough religious stuff.... unless you want to discuss Zhukolicism

I'd just like to make one comment on yours about car vs gun fatalities... Cars (and public transportation) get most people to work, home, shopping etc. Guns used to have the utility of killing the family meal but that doesn't really apply anymore. (With exceptions) In this day and age, motorized transport is a necessity, not a luxury.

The car fatality rate is probably most attributable to the lousy training we get and the arrogant, and crappy, attitudes many people have while behind the wheel.

But that's a whole other discussion.

[The_Dark]

Lets talk crossbows.... I just found out that it's legal to hunt with them in Michigan. I'm not sure when they made it legal. I know when I was young you had to be handicapped in someway to be able to hunt with a crossbow. You could fish with one but not hunt with it. It seems that now, anyone can. Wooohoooo... I've always thought hunting with a crossbow would be fun.

[Msterbeau]

Lets talk crossbows.... I just found out that it's legal to hunt with them in Michigan. I'm not sure when they made it legal. I know when I was young you had to be handicapped in someway to be able to hunt with a crossbow. You could fish with one but not hunt with it. It seems that now, anyone can. Wooohoooo... I've always thought hunting with a crossbow would be fun.

At what velocity do they shoot the arrows?

[Steven]

Heres your pop culture: I suppose that would explain the first Christian sticom

I guess that also would explain why Bush and the Republicans are in power.  Liberal non-Christians sure love Dubbya. 

And in case you still think that Christians have it rough in this country...

Sorry man.  I'm not trying to "persecute" you or anything else, but being a pagan myself, I find that a lot of people give me a lot weirder looks when I tell them that than when my sister-in-law tells people that she's a Christian.  Ask yourself if you'd really want to be an admitted pagan out there in the world, or if being a Christian makes your life in society a little bit easier.  I think an honest answer would find that being your Christianity isn't exactly a social hindrance.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This is getting pretty silly Dude.

1st - I fear no one, I take my Chrisitanity with me everywhere - from the streets of Hollywood to the bar down the street to the tattoo parlour to a third world country and onward even into a VERY much slanted and anti judeo christian online community called DGN. I'm not enemies with anyone. People by and large have been very good to me in here and in return I have likewise been the same with them. I dont care that they are Pagans. Do you think I only associate with Christians? To do that would be completely Anti-Christian.

But dont insinuate to me that I dont know what its like to be the outcast. You are only an outcast if you accept the postion, only downtrodden if you yeild. If your a Pagan you've nothing to fear from me. I dont hate you - dont fear you - dont waste valuable personal time wringing my hands togethor and imagining your demise. I also dont feel (nor do I fear) any so called "persecution". Why did you choose to use that word by the way? Sure didint come from me, not my style, not my nature, not my agenda, not my cha cha - know your audience Johnny, I am not the kind of man who cringes and curls.

And please take the time to use definitive examples from MY life (my name is Steven Urenda, Steven with a "V") where my Chrisitanity has proven to be a social E Ticket. Dont tell me about your sister - tell me about ME - since you chose to take liberties with statements regarding MY Christian life - based on your Sister an your online links. You have a way of making your points with a condescending edge kid - there is no need for that and until now I have never addressed you with this style of snobbishness. The way you are adressing me and others here refutes your being an outcast - instead it paints you as an instigator. Think about it.

2nd - And the George W. thing. sooooooooooooooooooo sick of that trite and shallow use as PROOF that the chrisitans have usurped the throne. George aint the first Xtian, nor is he the first republican to hold power. And personally I dont care that he calls himself a Christian or that Christian Media have endorsed him. Clinton referred to himself as a Christian too. Titles mean nothing to me. The Left has had (and will continue to have) plenty of opportunity to do the same. Nothing new here. Old school, old hat.

3rd - you seem to be a data junkie. What are you - 23? A student? I ask because data in and of itself is not "truth" dude, nor is it free of biased perversion. You can quote me anything you want. sending me "proof" via your seemingly numerous online sources - that doesent prove anything, and it also doesent increase your personal experience - or deny my own. I'm not out to conquer you man - I'm just expressing an opinion, and regardless of whether or not I have "data" to back it - I'm never going to throw an online link at you. I hate it when people use that to death. Tell me about YOU. Your life. Your expereince. Chances are I'll listen much more attentively.

[The_Dark]

At what velocity do they shoot the arrows?

Well, that doesn't matter much. A Crossbow with a draw weight of 740lbs would fire a bolt at 138.7 feet per second. A long bow with a 68lbs draw will fire an arrow at 133.7 feet per second. The differance is the Crossbow bolt will go through a 1/4 inch plate of steel armor.. the arrow bounces off. For hunting that means brush is not going to fowl your shot.

[The_Dark]

BTW.. those are medival stats... moderen engineering has brought us a better crossbow.... a moderen cross bow at 185lbs will move the bolt at 290fps but at a cost of penatration power.

[Head Wreck]

i havent kept up with modern archery and crosbows.

do you still have to winch them at that draw strength.

i allways wants to take up archery, but i dont think i'd ever get strong enough to draw a longbow, let alone a welsh longbow

[The_Dark]

There are crossbow models that you need a winch for... It really depends on what the draw is. Most highend crossbows use the same pully setup as a compound bow... so you may have 180pounds of draw but it only takes 70 to pull it.

As for longbows... drawing it isn't normally the problem... it's holding it long enough to take aim thats the problem. An aveerage longbow has somewhere between a 45 and 100 pound draw. Thats the benifit of a compound... once you get it pulled, the clutch kicks in and the string is in a "dead spot" where it only takes about 25-30 pounds of force to hold it.

[Head Wreck]

cheating bows as we call them here.

but cantilevered bows and crossbows are definatly the way.

[cptdeath]

this is dangerous, this removal of the right to bear arms.  This means that any opressor that sets his sights on you now has an even greater opportunity to kill you and your children and those you love.  Removing the guns will not stop the oppressor.  But it will severely limit your ability to repel one, even if that oppressor wears a government badge.

and this is equally dangerous, this removal of contact between military recruiters and recruitees.  In effect it says that the youth are unable to think for themselves, so we'll do it for them. 

any ban on CHOICE - leads to death, and control.

America was once all about the freedom of choice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

its unconstitutional to order the public to surrender their arms.

i'm pro freedom and your right it does take away the freedom of choice that americans die for everyday.

just cause my neighbor votes that i cant own a gun doesn't mean they can stop my right to own it.

in wayne M.I. when we went to vote in the presidential election there was this guy standing behind the old ladies pointing at people. the ones he pointed at were not allowed to vote. turned away for multitudes of different reasons. after two hours i had about 30 people under 25 that were not allowed to vote i stoped the republican challanger on the way out of the restroom and told him "you know, the 2nd ammendmeant isn't for hunting if you get what i'm saying" after that 4 police oficers that live in different counties like livonia and westland showed up and stood in front of the school doors with there arms crossed and shouted orders at me and 30 others to disperse. so i ran for mayor and got 8% in the primary

maybee i should have shot that guy to defend my peoples right to vote.

[DarkVampire]

America is becoming less free while other former Communist countries gain more freedoms. Something is wrong with that picture. Gun bans? I really would like to see someone try and take away my weapons.

[Scary Guy]

America is becoming less free while other former Communist countries gain more freedoms. Something is wrong with that picture. Gun bans? I really would like to see someone try and take away my weapons.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah either you surrender them willingly or they pry them from your cold dead hands. Either way they're getting those guns if they want them.

Any freedoms you think you have are now pretty much illusions. You can stand by the second amendment all you want but when the time comes, that too will be gone.

Hitler supported gun control too you know.

[The_Dark]

Honestly... if widespread gun bans are passed... a great many people are going to die in the resulting revolution.

[Homicidalheathen]

cheating bows as we call them here.

but cantilevered bows and crossbows are definatly the way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

YAH, my freinds are into archery.....(last time I shot I hurt my titty!) and they say it is cheating but, it is easier. (I have small arms.)

[Bpage]

I live in San Francisco and I voted for the ban. On the most part this is a pretty safe city. I will admit it's unlike most cities in America. I happen to live in an area where the "projects" are a few blocks away and there are lots of murders and drive bys happening. Most San Franciscans don't carry or want to carry guns, it's pretty much the gang bangers and drug dealers in the hoods that are shooting one another. With this ban when someone gets caught with a gun there are no if, ands or buts about it it's against the law. I'm really happy it passed.

If you want your "right to bear arms" than don't come to San Francisco! Sorry Jared you'll have to leave your rifle in Oakland :tear

[ZhukovCodeslinger]

I live in San Francisco and I voted for the ban.  On the most part this is a pretty safe city. I will admit it's unlike most cities in America. I happen to live in an area where the "projects" are a few blocks away and there are lots of murders and drive bys happening.  Most San Franciscans don't carry or want to carry guns, it's pretty much the gang bangers and drug dealers in the hoods that are shooting one another.  With this ban when someone gets caught with a gun there are no if, ands or buts about it  it's against the law.  I'm really happy it passed.

If you want your "right to bear arms" than don't come to San Francisco!  Sorry Jared you'll have to leave your rifle in Oakland :tear

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I hate to break it to you but it was already against the law to be driving around with a handgun in most of california... plus the gangbangers were not allowed to be kiling people anyway... Do you think they will stop now that this new law was passed? As far as I know, this law will not affect anyone except for people who were not previously breaking laws. I seriously doubt that the gang bangers will say "aww shucks, I guess we have to quit being gangbangers and stop dealing crack now... hey lets give up the life and become goths"

[HipsterDufus]

I hate to break it to you but it was already against the law to be driving around with a handgun in most of california...  plus the gangbangers were not allowed to be kiling people anyway... Do you think they will stop now that this new law was passed?  As far as I know, this law will not affect anyone except for people who were not previously breaking laws.  I seriously doubt that the gang bangers will say "aww shucks, I guess we have to quit being gangbangers and stop dealing crack now... hey lets give up the life and become goths"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hehehe. "Guns don't kill people. I kill people" From "Happy Gilmore"

[ZhukovCodeslinger]

Hehehe.  "Guns don't kill people.  I kill people"  From "Happy Gilmore"

[

Im pretty sure it was also in UHF

[Blackmail]

Im pretty sure it was also in UHF

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Neither movie was as funny as DC Cab.

By the way, I'm a fiscal conservative and I am opposed to guns. I just don't think we need them.

[HipsterDufus]

Neither movie was as funny as DC Cab.

By the way, I'm a fiscal conservative and I am opposed to guns.  I just don't think we need them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, to be fair, there are a lot of things that people don't need that we, as a society, allow them to buy anyway. People don't need alcohol, cigarettes, or porn (though some may think they do), but we allow them to buy them anyway. It's all a question of responsibility and how much we trust people. Of course I understand the argument that guns can be used to kill people. But alcohol+car is just as dangerous.

[Bpage]

I hate to break it to you but it was already against the law to be driving around with a handgun in most of california...  plus the gangbangers were not allowed to be kiling people anyway... Do you think they will stop now that this new law was passed?  As far as I know, this law will not affect anyone except for people who were not previously breaking laws.  I seriously doubt that the gang bangers will say "aww shucks, I guess we have to quit being gangbangers and stop dealing crack now... hey lets give up the life and become goths"

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know it's against the law to drive around with a gun and to kill a person. My point was that when a gun is found there is no question on whether that person has the right to carry it, they don't. It will give the police more power. I know that statement will make some people cringe but I really like the police here in SF. I have had no issues with them whatsoever. It's a weird town, people get along, we're a peaceful, liberal lot that hate Bush, hate the war and think people should be able to marry who ever the hell they want to. I can't think of one person I talked to that was against the gun ban. There are plenty of places in the US where you can carry your gun, the majority of us spoke out and said we don't want your guns here!

[ZhukovCodeslinger]

There are plenty of places in the US where you can carry your gun, the majority of us spoke out and said we don't want your guns here!

"Our guns" wont ever be there... but the gangbangers will still be there and they are not going to give up their guns.....

as for police pulling someone over and "not knowing if they were legal to have it", its pretty simple. Have you been pulled over? Did you show them your divers license? Same thing works for having a gun on you when you are outside your house. No license to have that gun with you moving around = crime (in the same way that driving with no license is a crime)

I think that SF would probably benefit from Banning Cocaine, Rape, Murder, Kidnapping, and theft as well...

ill bet you $1 that crime will go up just like it did in Chicago, DC and NYC when they did the same thing.

[Jarodaka]

There are plenty of places in the US where you can carry your gun, the majority of us spoke out and said we don't want your guns here!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's why crime is about to go up in SF. All those gangbangers now know that the law-abiding citizens have been disarmed.

BTW, this is the problem with democracy -- it allows the majority to vote away the rights of the minority.