Do you believe in Fate?

[Onyx]

Please post a brief explanation when you respond. I find this subject quite interesting.

[DisturbedMania]

The more I learn about astrology the more I believe that certain things are fated.

[Black Sunday]

ver 1.5

[bav]

Please post a brief explanation when you respond.  I find this subject quite interesting.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll go ahead and dissent on this idea.....I do not believe in fate. For me, fate implies a greater meaning of the universe and and the people in it. I do believe in random chance and the occasional synchronicitic events, but you have to be alert to catch the synchronicity as it happens or after the fact.

Part of my core belief structure is that the existance of life in general and the lives of individuals specifically are miracles in and of themselves, so you should take what you have, run with it, and make the most out of what you have. You make your own interpretations of what happens around and/or to you and if you don't like a situation/event/thought pattern process, you have various choices at different stages of said situation/event/thought pattern process that you can affect change.

In my own opinion, I think that saying something was "fated" to happen is simultaneously the pinnacle of egotism and a cop-out of personal responsibility. Too much faith placed in fate is a resignation of choice and responsibility.

This is what works for me. YMMV.

[The_Dark]

I can't see how one can believe in God without beleiveing in fate/destiny. So yeah, I do beleive.

[Brenda Starrr]

I'm with TD. I didn't think that I believed in fate, but I do. More and more every day.

[Shade Everdark]

I can't see how one can believe in God without beleiveing in fate/destiny. So yeah, I do beleive.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

How do you folks reconcile the idea of fate or destiny? If you've the power to change what happens in the course of your life, does that not negate the idea of fate?

As if it weren't obvious by my questions above, I do not really believe in the idea of fate. I'm not opposed to the idea that there might be some force guiding some lives, perhaps, but fate? No.

[phee]

I think we are fated to never understand such things.

I like the above idea,

If there is such a thing as fate/destiny/god/cthulhu (and I have not seen any "obvious" and irrifutable evidence of such.... Ok maybe Cthulhu) then I (as I cannot speak for anyone else) cannot fathom or understand it.

I know enough to know that I don't know!

I know that concepts like God/fate/destiny/cthulhu have been used to remove peoples sense of choice and power over themselves, so that the powerful can exploit them. It is why I am very skeptical of any "organized" religion, because what ever the actual orgins of the religion may have been, and why the religion was created in the first place, are hard to see over the expanse of time. Think about how messed up it can be simply giving someone directions over the phone, now that is just one person to another, let alone the millions of people that religious messages have exchanged between. Religion/Fate I think may have been used to try to imply some sort of order to a (seemingly) chaotic world.

I have to consider some questions:

Why did humans think up/come to the idea of fate in the first place?

Why did humans invent the concept of God?

Who gains from these concepts?

How do you/others effect the world around you, and is that part of fate? or is it because we share this world with other creatures with minds?

How much of the Universe do you actually understand? and is it enough to form a reasonable opinion in the first place? (In my case, I know that I am seeing such a small fraction of the true possibilities that are out there, and that there is som much more for me to learn, my answer is no.)

I'm done.

[The_Dark]

How do you folks reconcile the idea of fate or destiny? If you've the power to change what happens in the course of your life, does that not negate the idea of fate?

Easy. You don't know your fate/destiny. Any "change" you make in your life plan is already fated/destined to be made. Free will is an illusion created to make us happy.

[Jarodaka]

No, I don't believe in Fate, but I have a good idea.

[Shade Everdark]

Easy. You don't know your fate/destiny. Any "change" you make in your life plan is already fated/destined to be made. Free will is an illusion created to make us happy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

People tell me I'm a bleak and cynical mofo, but no offense, Dark, you take the cake.

[Head Wreck]

the pair of you need to spend time out, watch some teletubbies and chill out.

fate. i'm going to die old and alone. i've accepted it and i challenge fate to prove me wrong.

[SomeDanGuy]

I'm not sure I believe in freewill either, but neither do I believe in fate or god or an afterlife. I'm a scientist through and through, so I think we're just incredibly complex chemical reactions. Essentially a big algorithm taking in and outputting data in a fashion that may someday be predictable.

Is that even more bleak? :grin:

[The_Dark]

Nothing bleak about that... It's a really entertaining illusion.

[bav]

Easy. You don't know your fate/destiny. Any "change" you make in your life plan is already fated/destined to be made. Free will is an illusion created to make us happy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow....that's pretty capricious of the Powers that Be, then. Why worry about making us happy?

So, if free will is an illusion, that would mean that the downfall of Adam & Eve was an intentional set-up. So was the decision by the Powers-That-Be to punish them and boot them from Paradise for something that was already pre-programmed for them to do.

And why even have the Commandments and the threats of damnation if it's in the destinies for some people to break the Commandments and be damned? And why would it matter if a non-Christian found Jesus? Or for that matter, why do anything, other than the reason that it's fated to be and you ultimately have no choice in anything.

I can accept the idea of "God's Plan", but I think this is taking the idea of it to an extreme. Makes no sense to even play the game if every part of it is scripted.

But then again, the common response to this seems to be that the mind of God is unfathomable. Do you go along with that?

In all seriousness, Dark, if this is your true conviction then I have to admire how you make it through the day. Is it because of the knowledge that yer part of the big picture, a piece of the greater Intention?

I'm genuinely not trying to be offensive....I'm very curious on what provides people meaning, and the above seems to be a common viewpoint, but one that I find difficulty in understanding.

[The_Dark]

We are all of us, part of the big picture and have our own parts to play. Not every little thing is scripted, just most of it. We have just enough true free will to give the illusion. Every Quantum branch is mapped in advance.. no matter what your choice, your guided to the final outcome chosen for you. The path you take to get there is multiple...and noone walks the same path. I am not a good enough writer to put this all down in a coherant way... this is a subject best left to a real life intamate conversation. Where emotions and words are best confered. This medium leaves too much to interpritation.

[DisturbedMania]

So, if free will is an illusion, that would mean that the downfall of Adam & Eve was an intentional set-up.  So  was the decision by the Powers-That-Be to punish them and boot them from Paradise  for something that was already pre-programmed for them to do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Interesting concept the Adam and Eve story. Now according to the bible God designed them in his image, God being all perfect and all. Then throw in that whole God already knows everything and he tosses in this funny little free will thing. I'm going with the theory that since He knew it was going to happen, but made some messed up humans anyway it was pretty much fated that Adam and Eve would end up with apple pie. And on a side note, angelic beings were not designed with free will so does that mean that Satan (a fallen angel) was designed to be evil and if so why make evil. Was God really that bored?

[Onyx]

I promised myself I'd post my thoughts without reading what anyone else wrote, but I read a few yesterday (couldn't resist)

Fate - No I do not believe in fate if by fate you mean what happens in your life is predetermined.

I also do not believe in Hollywood's idea of romance and lovers fated to meet, etc etc, *puke*. Seems ridiculous. I believe a lot of very bad relationships start this way. "OH WOW you like ketchup too! We were fated to be lovers! Let's go to Vegas right now and get married!"

To me that it is the ultimate stupidity to base something so important on chance meetings or some nebulous idea of fate. I believe God gave us brains and expects us to use them.

Some will blame God, Allah, whatever you call your belief in a higher power and how "It must have been God's will" whenever someone does something stupid and gets themself killed. I've heard this applied to people who were killed driving drunk. Made me ill to hear them going on and on about it. The majority of accidents are preventable - buildings falling in earthquakes are many times due to errors in design.

I do believe in a higher intelligence. I also believe human beings have free will. Knowing what will happen in the end does not mean you controlled what will happen.

I believe free will puts the responsibility on us. If I want to drink myself to death I won't bleme God for allowing me to do it. Free will is dangerous but what good is a race of robots?

Some have more opportunities than others, yes. What you do with opportunities matters so much more though. So many have risen above poverty and every conceivable obstacle to become successful. (and success isn't necessarily money). So many more are born with every conceivable advantage and end up homeless drug addicts. I just want to slap some sense into them and say - you have muscles and a brain -- USE them.

[JaneDead]

Fate - No I do not believe in fate if by fate you mean what happens in your life is predetermined.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i agree. how boring life would be if everything was already mapped out for us. i like to believe i make my choices and my choices lead to my actions and my actions lead to my consequences. not that anyone or anything controls that for me. i do also believe that some things are NOT in my control but can't be sure i would think of that as "fate". i would just consider that "out of my hands".

[DisturbedMania]

I was talking to Shawn a long while back ago and I told him I'd been a city club regular for quite some time and he found it funny that he'd never noticed me. Perhaps with fate the chance meetings and conversations that really meant something are fated so that in this lifetime you can gain better understandings of things. Sometimes you can know a person forever and never get into a really deep conversation about things, and sometimes you meet a person and only talk to them once, but end up in a conversation that enhances your perceptions of things around you.

[Troy Spiral (13)]

Since im still working on "where did everythng come from???" , which i'd need to answer i think before i decided if i belive in fate or not...

I guess i'd have to say a tenative "no" just based on a gut feeling that perhaps things are not "planned" by anyone/thing. But i still have the jury in chambers and they will NOT be let out until they make a decision. Hope they brought their toothbrushes.