A note about Diesel...

[Fierce Critter]

What you appear to be missing is that I really don't care what you, or anyone else, thinks about City Club. Nor have I disputed the things that you and others say about the place.

What I have commented on is the insistence on using language like, "Why go to City Club...". You're just the latest in a line of people saying something along the lines of, "there's something wrong with you if you choose to go to CC".

I believe I've kept a civil tone throughout this conversation.

Too bad you, especially as an acting moderator, can't do the same.

[Guest Game of Chance]

What you appear to be missing is that I really don't care what you, or anyone else, thinks about City Club. Nor have I disputed the things that you and others say about the place.

What I have commented on is the insistence on using language like, "Why go to City Club...". You're just the latest in a line of people saying something along the lines of, "there's something wrong with you if you choose to go to CC".

I believe I've kept a civil tone throughout this conversation.

Too bad you, especially as an acting moderator, can't do the same.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't think you have at all. Nor have I thought you were anything but unfriendly despite the help I tried to offer you and your husband some months ago while he was unemployed.

BTW...I asked them 2 days ago to remove my moderator status. It seems that people can say whatever they like on this site. What's the point of having mods?

[Fierce Critter]

I don't think you have at all.  Nor have I thought you were anything but unfriendly despite the help I tried to offer you and your husband some months ago while he was unemployed.

BTW...I asked them 2 days ago to remove my moderator status.  It seems that people can say whatever they like on this site.  What's the point of having mods?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you have found me unfriendly in face-to-face situations, perhaps you'll address that with me privately. And I will say this much - I would be very surprised to know you thought so, and would welcome your private explanation as to why you think I come off that way.

I haven't forgotten the help you offered - your PMs are still in my inbox. I never forget someone who offers me and mine help in a time of need. As far as I'm concerned, I still owe you one.

But if you find me "unfriendly" because I expressed a differing opinion from you, it's your prerogative to view me that way. I simply posted about how your original comments were needlessly negative toward those of us who choose to go to CC, and counter-productive to your true aim - getting people to give Diesel a try. And I continued to defend my stance when you debated it, using increasingly rude & patronizing language, I might point out.

If you'd prefer I don't challenge you and that I should back down when you present differing opinion - if that would make me appear more "friendly" - I'm afraid I'm going to have to disappoint you. If that makes me a "bitch", well, so be it - but I'm a bitch with an opinion and not afraid to stand by it.

I differ in opinion with plenty of people on here who take it as just that - differing opinion. Neither of us take it personally. And we meet & greet face-to-face in person regularly, without rancor.

I might concede that my initial post here was a reaction to yours being the latest in a trend of people ever-so-subtly insulting people who like/choose to go to CC. If it appeared I was singling you out, I do apologize. If that's the case, then maybe my comments have struck you as a personal attack on you. Again, that wasn't my intention.

[bean]

It's not that anyone cares about whether someone likes City Club or not, it has to do with the ATTITUDE about the whole thing. A few of us are getting tired of some people’s condescending, elitist, holier-than-thou attitude about certain things. Get off your high horse. It’s a sad time when someone is told they are “being a bitch” for expressing their own OPINION about something.

[Guest Game of Chance]

If you have found me unfriendly in face-to-face situations, perhaps you'll address that with me privately. And I will say this much - I would be very surprised to know you thought so, and would welcome your private explanation as to why you think I come off that way.

I haven't forgotten the help you offered - your PMs are still in my inbox. I never forget someone who offers me and mine help in a time of need. As far as I'm concerned, I still owe you one.

But if you find me "unfriendly" because I expressed a differing opinion from you, it's your prerogative to view me that way. I simply posted about how your original comments were needlessly negative toward those of us who choose to go to CC, and counter-productive to your true aim - getting people to give Diesel a try. And I continued to defend my stance when you debated it, using increasingly rude & patronizing language, I might point out.

If you'd prefer I don't challenge you and that I should back down when you present differing opinion - if that would make me appear more "friendly" - I'm afraid I'm going to have to disappoint you. If that makes me a "bitch", well, so be it - but I'm a bitch with an opinion and not afraid to stand by it.

I differ in opinion with plenty of people on here who take it as just that - differing opinion. Neither of us take it personally. And we meet & greet face-to-face in person regularly, without rancor.

I might concede that my initial post here was a reaction to yours being the latest in a trend of people ever-so-subtly insulting people who like/choose to go to CC. If it appeared I was singling you out, I do apologize. If that's the case, then maybe my comments have struck you as a personal attack on you. Again, that wasn't my intention.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It defintely appeared to me and others as a personal attack.

[Guest Game of Chance]

It's not that anyone cares about whether someone likes City Club or not, it has to do with the ATTITUDE about the whole thing.  A few  of us are getting tired of some people’s condescending, elitist, holier-than-thou attitude about certain things.  Get off your high horse.  It’s a sad time when someone is told they are “being a bitch” for expressing their own OPINION about something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A few of us got sick of the negative attitudes period on this board. Only one of us stepped forward and actually did something about it. Thanks for the continued support.

[Fierce Critter]

It defintely appeared to me and others as a personal attack.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can see where you would have taken my inital post as directed personally towards you. My bad wording. Bad assumption that you'd understand by saying "people" I wasn't talking about just you.

And probably bad placement - better in retrospect that I had started a separate thread similar to Mauraway's.

But I fail to see how you could construe it as an attack. I think it's pretty obvious that I was the one feeling attacked, especially once you started using more and more angry language.

Bad communication on both our parts, I think.

[Fierce Critter]

A few of us got sick of the negative attitudes period on this board.  Only one of us stepped forward and actually did something about it.  Thanks for the continued support.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

There appear to be two fronts here.

Group A who feels that they're being attacked by a new trend of people telling us we've got something wrong with us because we choose to go to CC.

Group B who feels that they're being attacked by Group A defending themselves against comments that they see as borderline (if not directly) insulting.

Thus, your comment quoted there could be directed at either side.

I still feel this is really bad communication going on. I'd hate to think anyone is being purposefully rude to the other. On both fronts.

[Guest Game of Chance]

I can see where you would have taken my inital post as directed personally towards you. My bad wording. Bad assumption that you'd understand by saying "people" I wasn't talking about just you.

And probably bad placement - better in retrospect that I had started a separate thread similar to Mauraway's.

But I fail to see how you could construe it as an attack. I think it's pretty obvious that I was the one feeling attacked, especially once you started using more and more angry language.

Bad communication on both our parts, I think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Unlike Jinx, Scary Guy and various other members, I'm not an employee/contractor of City Club's competition. For you to come out of your "shell" in a thread that I started because I really enjoyed Diesel seems to me as a personal attack. I didn't read anything in my initial post that bad mouthed City Club. I merely asked a question. You were then offended by the question...at which point it got ugly.

Its a sad state when someone posts a positive thread (for once on this site) and it gets turned into something negative.

[Guest Game of Chance]

There appear to be two fronts here.

Group A who feels that they're being attacked by a new trend of people telling us we've got something wrong with us because we choose to go to CC.

Group B who feels that they're being attacked by Group A defending themselves against comments that they see as borderline (if not directly) insulting.

Thus, your comment quoted there could be directed at either side.

I still feel this is really bad communication going on. I'd hate to think anyone is being purposefully rude to the other. On both fronts.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, the post quoted has to do with a much larger picture than just whether or not you enjoy City Club.

[Fierce Critter]

Unlike Jinx, Scary Guy and various other members, I'm not an employee/contractor of City Club's competition.  For you to come out of your "shell" in a thread that I started because I really enjoyed Diesel seems to me as a personal attack.  I didn't read anything in my initial post that bad mouthed City Club.  I merely asked a question.  You were then offended by the question...at which point it got ugly.   

Its a sad state when someone posts a positive thread (for once on this site) and it gets turned into something negative.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Sigh.

Alrighty. Seems you still don't see where I was coming from. So let me try this.

A friend and I went to Diesel and it was awesome. Just great. It's clean (but not sterile), has good music, awesome decor (it really looks badass in there), and friendly people working there.

I really like that place. Drinks were $5, premium beers $4. cover was $5 which is pretty reasonable for a club of this quality.

Plus, it has a rotating dance floor, how cool is that?

There's a great post. There's a non-judgmental, informative post sharing a positive experience encouraging others to give Diesel a try.

But you had to add this: "Why go to city club..."

Which makes the 2nd sentence actually read, "City Club is dirty, plays bad music, has bad decor, and unfriendly people, and if you go there, you're making a bad decision."

That's what I was reacting to. That's all I pointed out in my initial response.

Again, I'll concede I was too general in a post you took as personal.

But you post was NOT all positive. It started out with a negative on YOUR part. You didn't stick to your "enjoyment of Diesel". You had to add a criticism of the judgment of those of us who choose to go to CC.

Which has been done by DJ's from other clubs lately, other posters who don't like CC, etc.

If you can't see that by this point, I don't know where to take this but to leave you alone. Perhaps you actually did intend an insult, I don't know.

[Guest Game of Chance]

Sigh.

Alrighty. Seems you still don't see where I was coming from. So let me try this.

A friend and I went to Diesel and it was awesome. Just great. It's clean (but not sterile), has good music, awesome decor (it really looks badass in there), and friendly people working there.

I really like that place. Drinks were $5, premium beers $4. cover was $5 which is pretty reasonable for a club of this quality.

Plus, it has a rotating dance floor, how cool is that?

There's a great post. There's a non-judgmental, informative post sharing a positive experience encouraging others to give Diesel a try.

But you had to add this: "Why go to city club..."

Which makes the 2nd sentence actually read, "City Club is dirty, plays bad music, has bad decor, and unfriendly people, and if you go there, you're making a bad decision."

That's what I was reacting to. That's all I pointed out in my initial response.

Again, I'll concede I was too general in a post you took as personal.

But you post was NOT all positive. It started out with a negative on YOUR part. You didn't stick to your "enjoyment of Diesel". You had to add a criticism of the judgment of those of us who choose to go to CC.

Which has been done by DJ's from other clubs lately, other posters who don't like CC, etc.

If you can't see that by this point, I don't know where to take this but to leave you alone. Perhaps you actually did intend an insult, I don't know.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you choose to take it that way, feel free.

I can't believe I've spent as much time on this...

[Darque Knight]

And I can't believe I spent so much time reading this. Look there will always be people who like a place and people who don't like a place. There are some people who won't like either. Go wherever you want to go. No one is stopping you. I've spent time at every venue mentioned in this thread except Diesel and I am looking forward t seeing what the fuss is about. I've seen good and bad at ALL of the venues I've been to and I can form my own opinions about them. But in the end they are my own opinions.

Let me use another real-life example. I'm driving down the road and I see two gas stations across the street from each other. Gas station A sells gas for $2.09 a gallon and Gas station B sells it for $2.12. Well if I need gas I'm pulling into station A because for me it's the price that's most important. I often wonder why the heck are there people filling up at station B? Then I thought about it for a while... what if they have a gas card for that company?, they have loyalty to that brand?, or heck they just didn't want to make a left turn? You know what in the end it doesn't matter the reason.

and the same goes for the venues we frequent. It doesn't matter where you go. No place is better for everyone... someplaces are just better for you.

[wheresmypiggy]

A voice of outside opinion.

City club sucks.

It always has.

The only reason CC is any good is because of its atmosphere.

The club is falling apart.

Regulars are getting kicked out left and right for some of the dumbest reasons I have ever heard.

When was the last time the moped the floors?

The list of horrid things goes on and on...

And yet I continue to go. Why?

Because I like the music. Because its open after I get outta work. Because its cheap.

Mephistos sucks.

I don't like the lighting.

I don't like the music for the most part.

I'm not fond of their mixed drinks.

Its too far for me to drive.

I don't like all the clingy people trying to constantly get my attention and act like I give a fuck about them.

I feel like I have stepped into the twilight zone when I get there.

And yet I still show up there on occasion. Why?

Because sometimes I need variety.

Sometimes I have people I would like to take to a cleaner place.

Sometimes they put on good shows there.

Necto. Well the only sucky part about Necto is the Tv's hurt my eyes and its too far away and its on a Monday.

I haven't been to Diesel as of yet. But I'm sure it will have some sucky points too.

Point is. All shitty goth bars suck at one point or another. In fact the whole scene basically sucks now. I hate how it has become a way of life for some people.

Grow up.

Sure its fun to go out and see your friends and love the music and dance and talk and sing. Then you go home and the next morning wake up and go on with your life.

You can live the 'party' life all you want but in reality you still have a regular life you have to tend to. Well unless you are Paris Hilton but then you should just be shot in my opinion.

Go to whatever club you want to. Stop taking offense to people bashing other clubs. This is not the Detroit City Club anything website. It the Detroit Gothic Net, you know where the 'goth' scene gets together and networks?

I personally don't give a fuck what club you go to. Its none of my concern.

Just stop bitching when someone defends their own opinions. This is directed at everyone.

Opinions make us individuals.

[BlackSkittles]

Yep, I think you pretty much summed it up... :laughing

[Blackmail]

A voice of outside opinion.

City club sucks.

It always has.

The only reason CC is any good is because of its atmosphere.

The club is falling apart.

Regulars are getting kicked out left and right for some of the dumbest reasons I have ever heard.

When was the last time the moped the floors?

The list of horrid things goes on and on...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I'll be damned if I am gonna sit here and let you rip on my beloved City Club. I've been going there since 1925 and have been a part of the uber goth scene since the mid 1700's. I am sick of all the posers who listen to music that is NOT goth, the only goth band ever is obviously the Blue Oyster Cult and any club that does not play BOC in constant 24 hour rotation is NOT uber goth. I don't mind a little Foghat or Uriah Heap mixed in with my BOC but none of this techno crap like VNV City or whatever.

Wait a second, after giving it some thought, I pretty much agree with everything Where's My Piggy said. I think.

[BlackSkittles]

Yeah, I agree with her too, except for the part about Paris Hilton. I think the bitch should be slowly tortured and burned.

I'll be damned if I am gonna sit here and let you rip on my beloved City Club.  I've been going there since 1925 and have been a part of the uber goth scene since the mid 1700's.  I am sick of all the posers who listen to music that is NOT goth, the only goth band ever is obviously the Blue Oyster Cult and any club that does not play BOC in constant 24 hour rotation is NOT uber goth.  I don't mind a little Foghat or Uriah Heap mixed in with my BOC but none of this techno crap like VNV City or whatever.   

Wait a second, after giving it some thought, I pretty much agree with everything Where's My Piggy said.  I think.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Fierce Critter]

Now, don't be hatin' on Paris, ya'll.

I'm sure the girl has trials & tribulations and challenges to face every day, just like you and I.

Poor, misunderstood Paris. I'll be your friend!

[JaneDead]

you are ALL on crack.

and you didn't even save any for me.

nice.

[Fierce Critter]

Come on, Jane. You're not fooling anybody.

We all know you save the best crack for yourself.

And that you run the busiest meth lab in the state, and you never offer any "samples" to DGNers.

Selfish ho.

Paris would NOT want to be YOUR friend.

[jane dazzle]

Hey Gameofchance, are you going to city club tonight lol. Headlessgoth and I want to say hello.

[Marblez]

Unfortunately, there is this double edged sword in play.

People don't like the negative crap about CC but they also want to be where the crowd is.

Some want to be where they can blend into the crowd or get right out there in front of the crowd. Regardless of how nice a place is - if they cannot blend in or show off - it makes them uncomfortable.

The question Diesel has to answer is this - How do you get enough people to go to a new club at the same time on a night when there is another club that already has the crowd you want?

Short of getting NIN to play there on a Saturday night...I am not sure.

Are they open Friday nights, same format?

[Onyx]

Yes, they are open Friday. I think I may check it out this coming Friday night, depending on if I can get into town in time. (I notice there's a thread above this one about Friday).