enlightenmeant

[cptdeath]

jane dead.

vanity and laziness are difficult aspects to use to contol people. it's about control

my point is that enlightenmeant is not to be sought after activley or under the guise of guidence by others. do you seek enlightenmeant or power ohhh it's the same thing. what you seek allows others to bend you to a hidden purpose. it allows others to put you in the wrong place at the wrong time. what i want is for my fellow man to understand the weakness in them. to avoid being controlled by others in a negative manor. the man who openly asks for trust is the one you should be wary of.

if you desire power there is a good chance you'll get it. but were you get it from is the one you'll pay the price to. what you do with that power is the masters reward.

nothing is free. in the same sense if you seek enlightenmeant you just don't realize your the bad guy doing the masters biding till it's to late.

(master as a metephor)

you can disagree and undermine this wisdom. even reject the concept of good and evil. but your the one reading it arn't you. so i might have succeeded in sharing this with you and maybee even accomplished my goal of enlightening you on the subject here. regardless of open denial.

defience is an admirable quality. but of those five things listed one will dominate your personality and allow your actions to be controlled. this is true of everyone.

what you don't notice is that i'm teaching you how to control people. as well as protect yourself from a ruse like the quest for enlightenmeant.

[JaneDead]

defience is an admirable quality. but of those five things listed one will dominate your personality and allow your actions to be controlled. this is true of everyone.

what you don't notice is that i'm teaching you how to control people. as well as protect yourself from a ruse like the quest for enlightenmeant.

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but see what dominates my personality is laziness and i suppose you could instead label that as my fear.

and i don't want to control people and i don't let people control me

[Steven]

I seek enlightenment.  Anyone know where it went?  Heh.

There are these SRF people who claim Laheri Mahashi was too this point and could reappear at will in his physical body and lives in the Himalayes for eternity.

Why would anyone who is enlightened want to stay in such a crapy world that is cold?  He could have at least picked California.

I am glad my man is not a SRF person anymore.

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ummmm..... I moved HERE from California....

[Steven]

Its not that big of a deal...just lessons about life.  In the first 3 degrees anyway.

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Actually Steve I was just teasing you (about the secret handshake).

I havent had any mentors in that regard.

[Steven]

ok so you mention greed, anger, lust, sympathy and fear. what about vanity? what about laziness?

and what if you help direct someone rather than preach? i don't think you can actually "preach" enlightenment and have it just be "learned" anyways.

or if enlightenment finds you because of the path you are on rather than actively "seeking" that which i believe comes to you naturally if you are open to it?

why play games with good and evil? i don't do that. never really thought about it actually until now. but, i don't do that. i accept balance in my life. the "evil" doesn't make me happy but it always serves a purpose.

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I have to categorically disagree with the Captains suggestion here.

I beleive that in certain circumstances, anger can be righteous - as was displayed by Christ, mostly in opposition to the Sanhedrin.

Greed, no argument there, although it could be broadened to selfishness, and broadened further then to self-worship...

Lust - no argument there either. Lust (ie my weiner) has cost me greatly many times over.... with the exception of my wife, who because i ma completely committed to her and no other, we may do it like two hot dogs in the street, which we do.

Sympathy - I disagree (with calling ti a weakness. Sympathy and Empathy - when handled within balance, are wonderful emotions and tools that can open many doors and lead to much enlightenment.

Fear - I agree with - although it too is a neccessary life tool at times. Its when we worship fear (are under its control) that we fall.

And I agree with Jane.

Vanity. Evil. Solomon himself wrote a great deal on this worthless vice.

Laziness. Leads to self doubt and inner fear. Makes you fat too.

And I agree that you cannot "preach" someone into enlightenment.

You can guide, mentor, suggest, and listen.

But receiving wisdom can only come from a willing heart on the receiver's end. If hte heart is hard, doesent matter how much truth you share - the filter is bad and the efforts are wasted.

[JaneDead]

I have to categorically disagree with the Captains suggestion here.

I beleive that in certain circumstances, anger can be righteous - as was displayed by Christ, mostly in opposition to the Sanhedrin.

Greed, no argument there, although it could be broadened to selfishness, and broadened further then to self-worship...

Lust - no argument there either.  Lust (ie my weiner) has cost me greatly many times over.... with the exception of my wife, who because i ma completely committed to her and no other, we may do it like two hot dogs in the street, which we do.

Sympathy - I disagree (with calling ti a weakness.  Sympathy and Empathy - when handled within balance, are wonderful emotions and tools that can open many doors and lead to much enlightenment.

Fear - I agree with - although it too is a neccessary life tool at times.  Its when we worship fear (are under its control) that we fall.

And I agree with Jane.

Vanity.  Evil.  Solomon himself wrote a great deal on this worthless vice.

Laziness.  Leads to self doubt and inner fear.  Makes you fat too.

And I agree that you cannot "preach" someone into enlightenment. 

You can guide, mentor, suggest, and listen.

But receiving wisdom can only come from a willing heart on the receiver's end.  If hte heart is hard, doesent matter how much truth you share - the filter is bad and the efforts are wasted.

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i disagree here with "sympathy". i think it is bad, a bad emotion. i think when you have sympathy for someone you enable them. you can have empathy and compassion for sure but i do believe sympathy is what holds people back.

for example:

my friend calls and tells me horrible things about her abusive/neglecting boyfriend. and i sit there and say you are so right, he is such an asshole. fuck him. and let her cry to me and cry to me only for her to go back to her boyfriend and repeat this pattern.

i think that is destructive behavior and she would benefit more from my empathy rather than my sympathy. i can understand where she is coming from. i can maybe even have "been there, done that" with her situation. but once i start to feed into her "self pity" (i use self pity for lack of better term, not trying to make it out like this person would be pitiful or anything ) over the situation i do her more harm than good.

[Steven]

i disagree here with "sympathy". i think it is bad, a bad emotion. i think when you have sympathy for someone you enable them. you can have empathy and compassion for sure but i do believe sympathy is what holds people back.

for example:

my friend calls and tells me horrible things about her abusive/neglecting boyfriend. and i sit there and say you are so right, he is such an asshole. fuck him. and let her cry to me and cry to me only for her to go back to her boyfriend and repeat this pattern.

i think that is destructive behavior and she would benefit more from my empathy rather than my sympathy. i can understand where she is coming from. i can maybe even have "been there, done that" with her situation. but once i start to feed into her "self pity" (i use self pity for lack of better term, not trying to make it out like this person would be pitiful or anything ) over the situation i do her more harm than good.

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I think what makes this tough Jane is that we all might have varying degrees on what we understand sympathy to be.

For example, I sympathize with poor people and their struggles, as I grew uip very poor and struggled for many of my years. I might help somone in a limited capacity in this regard - if they were intent (and on a path) of self improvment and if it did not establish an unhealthy caretaker relationship. Because I know - that sometimes life just fucks you up and you need to reach out.

But to the girl who STAYS in an abusive relationship - I'd only have one response. Get out.

[Guest Game of Chance]

Actually Steve I was just teasing you (about the secret handshake).

I havent had any mentors in that regard.

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Its cool man, I don't mind talking about it at all...

[Guest Game of Chance]

i disagree here with "sympathy". i think it is bad, a bad emotion. i think when you have sympathy for someone you enable them.

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Compassion is the vice of kings. - Liber AL vel Legis

[Steven]

Compassion is the vice of kings. - Liber AL vel Legis

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I thought Betties were (seriously).

[Guest Game of Chance]

I thought Betties were (seriously).

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heh....yep that too ...that verse popped in my head though after reading the last few posts

[JaneDead]

I think what makes this tough Jane is that we all might have varying degrees on what we understand sympathy to be.

For example, I sympathize with poor people and their struggles, as I grew uip very poor and struggled for many of my years.  I might help somone in a limited capacity in this regard - if they were intent (and on a path) of self improvment and if it did not establish an unhealthy caretaker relationship.  Because I know - that sometimes life just fucks you up and you need to reach out.

But to the girl who STAYS in an abusive relationship - I'd only have one response.  Get out.

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well to me that would still be empathy, not sympathy.

and the girl was made up so i hope you didn't really think i had this friend, though i think you know that