I didn't need to know this..

[ManicQueen]

....but I'm glad I found out now.

A couple of nights ago Richard and I sat down on the couch and began talking about our future together and what 2006 had in store for us. The usual bullshit.

Things started getting pretty serious and upsetting quickly. The ring he gave me for xmas is temporary for the real thing, he says. My question. Why get it at all if I can't even wear it? Why not get me an engagement ring? So he goes into this whole spew about "what's the difference of getting married and not getting married?" "And it's just a piece of paper". He knows how important it is for me but he's been saying that he isn't ready for financial reasons and he wants to do things properly, the right way.. bullshit! He's very confusing to me. But he still says we'll get married eventually.

This was discussed for a while before I changed the subject.

"Do you love me, I ask?" "Yes, of course I do" he says. I go and ask why he never says that he loves me. His answer. "I shouldn't have too. You should automatically know how I feel about you!" He says that its not necessary to have to say the work "LOVE" because that's just what it is.. a word that has no meaning. At this point I was balling my eyes out. All these things he's saying is just breaking my heart a little at a time.

I told him for my New Years resolution that I'm going to tell him I love you everyday from now on. I too never told him I loved him but I had my own reasons.. rejection. All this time I knew he loved me and he knew I loved him, that is true. But I also told him sometimes it just needs to be said. Sometimes I need to hear it. We all do.

He pretty much told me that he can't tell it to me and not ever expect to hear it because he don't believe in a word that doesn't mean anything (to him) . I couldn't stop crying at this point and he also started crying after he told me that. He said that he was sorry that he wont ever be able to give me what I want.

I don't know what to do. I love him more than anything and I will tell him that every fucking day, even if it kills me! I'm kinda lost at the moment. I feel that I've wasted 4 years just to find this out. I mean, I always knew he had some isssues with it, like thinking love is a christian concept and all but I didn't know all that he told me.

Should I stay or should I go? This is a very big deal to me and I'm torn, heartbroken and lost.

What should I do? Should I just except the fact that I'll never hear him say I love you because I know inside he does? This is just too fucking ridiculous for words!

[Onyx]

Oh dear.

I am so sorry :(

I've been through something very very similar and this does not sound good.

Yes, you need to hear it and I do think he should NOT have a problem with saying it.

[Marblez]

Why should I say it, if I don't believe in the word?

Because you feel it. And even if you don't believe that "it" should be labeled... If the word has huge meaning to the other person...the person that you want to make happy more than anyone else in this world. It is worth swallowing the pride and creating your own meaning for it.

[ManicQueen]

Why should I say it, if I don't believe in the word?

Because you feel it. And even if you don't believe that "it" should be labeled... If the word has huge meaning to the other person...the person that you want to make happy more than anyone else in this world. It is worth swallowing the pride and creating your own meaning for it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I can kinda agree with you on that. And I am really trying to understand it. Maybe this will make me more appreciative of him and what he does have to offer me.

It just makes me a little sad, that's all.

[paradox]

wow. thats pretty fucking cold to say to someone to whom you are engaged.

1st off, it seems eminently obvious he has "cold feet".

2nd, how are you supposed to "automatically" know how he feels? are you psychic? IMO thats a load of crap. perhaps hes taking you too much for granted.

3rd, even if is is just a meaningless word to him (which is silly, because all words have and convey meaning, its the whole point of them afterall...), if he really does love you, then he would say it, if asked too, only because it makes you happy and he should want to make you happy, as he loves you even if he doesnt feel he has to say it.

id say that you should discuss whether or not to be married a bit more, and try to get him to genuinely express his real feelings about it. no point in going ahead if theres a chance youre not both on board.

im sorry that you find yourself in such a position, its a terrible thing to have to hear. hope everything works out for the best.

[Marblez]

I like Richard. You know I do, he knows I do.

I do know that he has an unusual belief system. And yes, it is different from what I have learned and live by. Different from yours as well. It seems to me that he should just say it if he feels it. To be honest, though, that just may not be reality for him.

Decide for yourself what is important.

Perhaps you can ask him what is the closest to the word that he can come, be it another word, or an action. Something that you can count on and translate into your definition of "love". Something that you know when you tell him that you love him, you know you have the reciprocation that you need.

[Marblez]

I am suddenly reminded that I spent a good length of time, years even, without being able to tell my mother "I love you". I believe I was in my twenties, I was married and not living at home any longer. I don't know why it started - but I seem to recall it had something to do with pride, perhaps rebellion.

I know that I always loved her. I know it hurt her that I couldn't say it, but I am confident that she knew I did as well. I started to give her a certain smile, and shake my head like a kid with zipped lips or a wink. It just became my way, the way I expressed it without saying it.

Eventually, and thankfully before she got sick, I started to say it again. The feeling was always there and something got me to start expressing it again. From then on it was everytime I saw her. Everytime I had the inclination,, I was telling her how much I loved and appreciated her.

[bean]

"love is a christian concept"

WHAT?!! I'm sorry but that just seems like a lame excuse to me, but I don't know your man, so I won't say anything else about that.

Everyone that has posted so far has given some good advice, so there really isn't much else for me to add except:

You really need to think things through. Take time and really really think about all of this, every aspect. Discuss things further with him. If there is any doubt in your mind, don't get married. I made that mistake. I had a few doubts before I got married, thinking that things would work themselves out or that things would change, or whatever. I've been married for 2 years and it went downhill after the first 6 months, so it's been misery for a year and a half.

Yes, you love him, but can you deal with his thinking on this matter? How would you feel about it a year from now? 2 years from now? Could you really go without him telling you that he loves you? Is just thinking that he does enough? You said that this is a big deal to you, and it should be, so take time and think.

I wish you the best of luck and I hope things turn out for you. *hugs*

[Rivers the Cleric]

wow that's... umm.. wow.

i don't know what to say about this, but it just struck me. hell, i tell my FRIENDS i love them. i honestly think you've gone a lot longer than i could have without hearing that. reguardless of what he may believe he has to understand that people all have needs, and some times what one person needs is more important than what one person wants.

if he can't set aside his personal feeling to say a single word that he knows is what the person he obviously plans to spend the rest of his life with wants more than anything.....

and "love is a christian concept" is just the most bullshit thing i've heard in my life. every group of people from every land since time started has had some form of word for Love.

fuck, tell him to say it in chinese if you have to "Ngo oiy neya (Wo Ai Ni)"

if that doesn't work, here's how to say it in Arameic "Yes Sirumem"

Farci "Doset Daram"

Hindi "Hum Tumhe Pyar Karte hae"

Japanese "Ai'shiteru yo"

and Turkish "älskarSeni seviyorum"

there ya go, not one a christian country, and they all have words for it. and have for THOUSANDS of years.

[ManicQueen]

"love is a christian concept"

WHAT?!!  I'm sorry but that just seems like a lame excuse to me, but I don't know your man, so I won't say anything else about that.

Everyone that has posted so far has given some good advice, so there really isn't much else for me to add except:

You really need to think things through.  Take time and really really think about all of this, every aspect.  Discuss things further with him.  If there is any doubt in your mind, don't get married.  I made that mistake.  I had a few doubts before I got married, thinking that things would work themselves out or that things would change, or whatever.  I've been married for 2 years and it went downhill after the first 6 months, so it's been misery for a year and a half.

Yes, you love him, but can you deal with his thinking on this matter?  How would you feel about it a year from now?  2 years from now?  Could you really go without him telling you that he loves you?  Is just thinking that he does enough?  You said that this is a big deal to you, and it should be, so take time and think.

I wish you the best of luck and I hope things turn out for you. *hugs*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We've been together for four years now and in those four years. He's said I love you once via text message and once written in a letter after a bunch of drama happened.

I've told him that I loved hime before but in the same way he did. I also verbalized it once or twice. With me, I'm afraid if I say it, I'll get rejected, which is kinda what just happened.

I haven't said anything to him since our conversation. I need to think through things more. I need to talk with him more and try to understand just where he's coming from. I need to get inside of his head somehow.

[Rivers the Cleric]

it's understandable. no one wants to be rejected, and in a lot of ways never saying it at least takes care of that worry. i can imagine that it would be worse if you had been rejected a lot in your past...

but the past is always behind us, if we keep looking where we've been we never see where we are, or where we're going.

but i have to agree, 4 friggin years, you have to give whatever happens a lot of thought. hell, after 4 months i tend to give things like that a lot of thought.

i'll just say that whatever path you choose to take may all the love you want find you there.

[ManicQueen]

wow that's... umm.. wow.

i don't know what to say about this, but it just struck me. hell, i tell my FRIENDS i love them. i honestly think you've gone a lot longer than i could have without hearing that. reguardless of what he may believe he has to understand that people all have needs, and some times what one person needs is more important than what one person wants.

if he can't set aside his personal feeling to say a single word that he knows is what the person he obviously plans to spend the rest of his life with wants more than anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know. I tried explaining all of this to him about how important it is for me to hear him say it. I truely know he loves me. He doesn't have to say a word for me to figure it out but I'd just like to hear it once or twice.

He said that he can't say anything that doesn't have meaning to him. YET, he tell's his mother I love you. He tells his daughter, I love you. WTF?

He still hasnt said I love you to our son.. and that's getting on my last nerve too.

[ManicQueen]

I appreciate everyone's comments and concern.

This weekend I'm going to have another talk with him.. something more in detail and more depth. I know he's gotta be sick of me constaintly asking questions about us. But if he could just give me nornal straight answers, I wouldn't have to keep asking!

I'll update with more breaking news :grin

[ManicQueen]

"love is a christian concept"

WHAT?!!  I'm sorry but that just seems like a lame excuse to me, but I don't know your man, so I won't say anything else about that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, he thinks marriage is a Christian concept and Love is over rated. He also has a very fucked up way of thinking, as if you couldn't tell that already :laughing

[Homicidalheathen]

What she said. By the time I met my man I was so bitter I made him say it first.......we lived together for 2 1/2 years before getting married to be 'sure'. However, he never had a problem saying I love you, never lead me on.....or vice versa. I don't know what to tell you. It does not sound good at all.

But you have us, we are your freinds.....we care and understand. Just hang in there. I don't know why he is being so vague......you can either wait it out or give an ultimatum. If you don't mind waiting, that is what I would do. I don't do the ultimatum thingy.....if it has come to that it is time to cut your losses I guess. =(

Oh dear.

I am so sorry :(

I've been through something very very similar and this does not sound good. 

Yes, you need to hear it and I do think he should NOT have a problem with saying it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[saechalyn]

He said that he can't say anything that doesn't have meaning to him. YET, he tell's his mother I love you. He tells his daughter, I love you.  WTF?

He still hasnt said I love you to our son.. and that's getting on my last nerve too.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Oh dear...that is really fucked up. I think this is the biggest red flag right here. :confused

Sorry you are dealing with this =(

[Lilith]

all i can say is every once in while a person has to do things they dont personally like to express there love to the person they do love.

For example if you hate BAseball but you SO loves it, you go to a game once in a while ot make him/her happy.

If you hate a certian type of food but your SO loves it, you would probally go to said resturant on SO's b-day and eat what ever you can tolerate......

all those even though not emotional would fall in to the same catergory... HE Does Love but does not like to say it... why not just say in on your Birthday and holidays at the very elast Just to make you happy, why not have a system in place for when you need to here I LOVE YOU.. some thing like "honey do you love me?" .... " Yes my dear I do infact Love you" that way he does not have to guess or budge on his beliefs but yet gives you what you need when you need it..... If the word has no real meaning to him then why have such a hard time saying it..... I just dont udnerstand......

As an outsider knowing compeletly nothing, i would have a rpoblem with him saying I love you to his mom and select Children but not you and the others.. that only fuels nasty feeling between those left out of the Love circle and those in it. Kinda of show favortisim and seriously KIDS do not understand that daddy has a Different belief system..... how much could lack of expression hurt them as they grow? I dont know just thoughts i have while reading through the posts here.

I wish some settlement on this some undertanding of some kind,

I too would take time to think and evelauate my own stand point befor i made any long term decission in regard to getting married or not. I would think over the kids and how they might feel with or with out the verbal expression of love....

I just dont know what to say other then i can sympthazize with

the hurt

the hurt for me would be of not having my love do/say soemthing i need them to or ask them to with out a hassel, it would make me feel as if they are only thinking of there own feelings and make me wonder why they cant for once just budge if no other reason then to make me smile and happy inside.

Bigg huggs dear.... it will get better soon just keep communication open even if he is tired of hearing it... i would think if he loves you he would be willing to listen to it a thousand time till you both come to a compromise that will work well for you both.

*the above is all my thoughts and mine only.. use/think of them only if they apply to you.... they are not ment ot hurt or make the situation worse... just used to illustrate how i would feel with the little bit of info provided.

[ManicQueen]

What she said.  By the time I met my man I was so bitter I made him say it first.......we lived together for 2 1/2 years before getting married to be 'sure'.  However, he never had a problem saying I love you, never lead me on.....or vice versa.  I don't know what to tell you.  It does not sound good at all.

But you have us, we are your freinds.....we care and understand.  Just hang in there.  I don't know why he is being so vague......you can either wait it out or give an ultimatum.  If you don't mind waiting, that is what I would do.  I don't do the ultimatum thingy.....if it has come to that it is time to cut your losses I guess. =(

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would never do the ultimatum thing either. I can't say " You have to marry me next month or I'm leaving." To me that's selfish. You'de be getting married for all the wrong reasons. I know a lot of woman who have done that and they get no respect from me. Forcing someone to marry your stupid ass.. that's the only reason he married you.. cuz you forced him...

That's the same with love and making someone say it.

I'll wait it out a bit, I think.

[ManicQueen]

I bought a membership at Blue Mountain ecards a few days ago. I've been sending him "love" ecards everyday. So far so good.

God, I feel like a little kid trying to make a boy like me. :laughing I don't mind though, at least I'm making an effort in this so called "relationship."

I suggested we go to counsiling or get some kind of therapy, I think he might be interested.

[Brenda Starrr]

Love is something that you feel in your heart. It doesn't matter what your religion or beliefs.

I wish I knew what to say, Brooke. All I know is that I hated the three years that Wayne didn't say that he loved me. It took him THAT long to admit it. It was the longest three years of my life.

**Hugs**

[Marblez]

Love is something that you feel in your heart. It doesn't matter what your religion or beliefs.

I wish I knew what to say, Brooke. All I know is that I hated the three years that Wayne didn't say that he loved me. It took him THAT long to admit it. It was the longest three years of my life.

**Hugs**

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And look at her now... gushing at every opportunity!

[Aralis]

Sorry to hear your going through this. It seems to me though that if he knows that it is important to you to hear those words then he would say them for you. Relationships do sometimes require compromising.

I hope things work out for you hon!

[Saephyr]

=( B sweetie...don't you think that life's too short for all this bullshit?

You want more than he can give is my guess.

My x b/f left due to religeon so he says....now that I think on it he never used to tell me that he loved me either. :tear

[Draco1958]

To some people, it is nothing more than a word. My ex and I always said it. Problem was that she didn't mean it when I did. Sometimes I think it's better to NOT hear the word than hear it only to find out it was an empty word being used to fool you. That's when it hurts more.

[DarkVampire]

I find it pretty cold that the word love means nothing to him. It's an expression of emotion and how you feel toward one another.