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Did Jesus exist?

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phee Enthusiast

phee

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thats pretty amazing how i often see you in such threads, then.  but, obviously, you are far too intellectual for me.  thanks for missing the point entirely! :)

*Phee puts on his referee costume and runs out blowing a wistle*

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Blackmail Newbie

Blackmail

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I think it is most probable that Jesus did exist.

Luke, John, Acts, and 1 Corinthians were first hand accounts.  They name check king Herod and Pontius Pilate.  Luke was a noted historian for christs sake (oops - sorry for the pun). 

Julius Meuller is an expert on mythology who says that it takes at least two generations for a myth to develop.  the story of jesus was widely accepted by many right after his death and within two decades had transformed the world.....all while contemporaries of Jesus were alive.....the new testament can't be proven myth like say 2nd and 3rd century apocryphal documents.

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Dude, you're a fucking asshole. All you do is spend 8 hours a day split between the "I hate my life" thread and the mens room barfing up your breakfast (aka screwdriver) from that morning. So shut the hell up with this psuedo-fratboy-intellectual jesus shit. I havn't seen anything this pretentious since I watched PBS back in 1989.

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Blackmail Newbie

Blackmail

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Dude, you're a fucking asshole.  All you do is spend 8 hours a day split between the "I hate my life" thread and the mens room barfing up your breakfast (aka screwdriver) from that morning.    So shut the hell up with this psuedo-fratboy-intellectual jesus shit.  I havn't seen anything this pretentious since I watched PBS back in 1989.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

blow me. I'm writing to the mods to have you banned. bitch.

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Rayne Rookie

Rayne

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Dude, you're a fucking asshole.  All you do is spend 8 hours a day split between the "I hate my life" thread and the mens room barfing up your breakfast (aka screwdriver) from that morning.    So shut the hell up with this psuedo-fratboy-intellectual jesus shit.  I havn't seen anything this pretentious since I watched PBS back in 1989.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

:laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing :laughing

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phee Enthusiast

phee

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Dude, you're a fucking asshole.  All you do is spend 8 hours a day split between the "I hate my life" thread and the mens room barfing up your breakfast (aka screwdriver) from that morning.    So shut the hell up with this psuedo-fratboy-intellectual jesus shit.  I havn't seen anything this pretentious since I watched PBS back in 1989.

Heh

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Blackmail Newbie

Blackmail

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Ummm... let's bring it back....

Did Jesus exist? Yes...

Do we know much about him? No

So that is kinda what faith is about, belief without fact right? Yup

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Well the question "do we know much about him" is a tricky question. The new testament says quite a bit about him obviously. It just depends on whether you think the New Testament is a reliable historical document as well as a religious manuscript. So then the question is whether we know alot about the authenchicity of the Bible, because if it can be verified, then alot of questions about Jesus would obviously be put to rest.

However it's not just the bible that references him, which makes things even more complicated. Flavius Josephus and Cornelius Tacitus are two examples of writers who mentioned Jesus while he was allegedly alive.

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Steven Newbie

Steven

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Well the question "do we know much about him" is a tricky question.  The new testament says quite a bit about him obviously.  It just depends on whether you think the New Testament is a reliable historical document as well as a religious manuscript.  So then the question is whether we know alot about the  authenchicity of the Bible, because if it can be verified, then alot of questions about Jesus would obviously be put to rest.

However it's not just the bible that references him, which makes things even more complicated.  Flavius Josephus and Cornelius Tacitus are two examples of writers who mentioned Jesus while he was allegedly alive.

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good points.

it seems to me that at times, when it comes to the figure of Jesus specifically, that the methods used to gather information about the past suddenly come under a critical light, yet those same methods are not called into question in other circumstances with other ancient writings, or historical narratives, or ???.

nobody questions the existence of Nero.

or Plato

or Confucious

or the Aztecs (we know less about the Aztec empire than we do about Christ, yet we teach about it in school)

or ???

that's another interesting thing about Jesus Christ.

He seems to have a way of creating a "need" to either prove or disprove him, depending on what sort of value system attracts you.

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Steven Newbie

Steven

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The case has been dismissed today, but the case now might end up in the European Court of Human Rights.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

who's next?

what religeous figure?

I vote: nobody. 3 1/2 years of preaching by a carpenter and still he is hated and persecuted. ALl of this sort of thign jsut makes me beleive in him more.

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Steven Newbie

Steven

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isnt that the whole point of faith?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well......not really.

faith in and of itself - is just faith. All of us in this room all have faith in various things - and not all of it is related to religiosity (is that a word???).

Some of that faith is negative and/or cynical....as is some of mine I must admit.

But I do beleive that ALL faith is a created thing, and ultimately in the end it is utilized as a tool to bring you around (willingly or unwillingly) to a specific stage of either growth or regression in your life, depending on what is done with it. One might even argue (or not, I know) that measurable end results are visible in one's life that reflect one's degree of faith in certain principles, thus exhibiting deliberate efforts and goals, and discipline, or lack thereof.....(or one might say I'm ful of crap)

My faith in Christ is really useless if I simply beleive in him.

Especially....if it's trite and does not run very deep. For example, many people's Christian faith is based soley on the fact that they were "raised as Christians". Or, that they tend to lean a bit more in that particular faith based direction but still consider multiple other approaches. That's not an identity in its fullness - that's not the completion and image of who you are, as was the intent of Christ with his converts. Those types of (or degrees of) faith only can produced limited measures of breakthrough because the embracing of the ideals or identity has likewise been limited.

SO I guess what i'm saying Paradox, in my typically long winded fashion, is that the point of faith is to create a life of abundance (not talking material) and direction, with a specific and conclusive source to draw from.

Steven

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paradox Newbie

paradox

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what i meant was, that faith is just that--belief despite any or no evidence. eg, the outcome of this trial has no bearing on your faith, other than, perhaps, strengthening it by way of realization of your own faith, contrasted by evidence of the lack of it in others.

i think faith is a wonderful things. religion, as in the organized kind, maybe not so much. but, at least for me, faith and religion often have little to do with one another.

while i dont share your specific beliefs, i have always admired your faith and your candidness in discussing both your faith and beliefs. it is clear, to me at least, that its pretty unshakable, which means that it is both sincere and consciously examined.

so, when i saw your reply above, it, to me, was an example of just that.

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Steven Newbie

Steven

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thank you brutha.

on the subject of little to no evidence (in regard to faith)....I understand what your saying but at times struggle to describe what I feel has been a tremendous amount of evidence in my own personal life. Certain things i witnessed (in children in the beginning) compelled me to explore this Christianity thing a tad bit more open mindely. As I did so, more and more scenarios and conclusions presented themselves, and continue to do so. But "evidence" is a speculative thing among different people, and its subject to our own personal worldviews and values.

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Nikki kitty Newbie

Nikki kitty

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An Italian court is tackling Jesus and whether the Roman Catholic Church may be breaking the law by teaching that he existed 2,000 years ago.

This very well might be one of the most interesting articles I have read in recent times.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/europe/01/04...reut/index.html

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Wow, how sad. The world is just getting worse and worse, I'm afraid.

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