Do You Believe In God?

[torn asunder]

There are two things that man believes exists but cant see. God and Dark Matter. They have a few things in common. They are both supposedly everywhere. They both have always been and always will be. and lastly... man cant define either one.

evidence of dark matter!?

[jadnifer]

I believe in God.

I believe everything happens for a reason.

I may not understand or know the reason but it happens FOR a reason.

In case of my religion however, I am non-denomenational. I dont think that I could ever become a member of a specific religion church because I dont completely believe everything that one religion teaches or practices. I dont think that it would be right to join a church and not believe everything that it preaches.

That's just me though and my beliefs.

[Steven]

There are two things that man believes exists but cant see. God and Dark Matter. They have a few things in common. They are both supposedly everywhere. They both have always been and always will be. and lastly... man cant define either one.

I believe in God. not the Judeo/Christian/Muslim representation of him though.. it's why I refuse to label myself Christian though many of my beliefs/moral mesh with that group. God, to me, is a quantum consciousness traveling along the stream of quantum possibility. He doesn't need absolute power or absolute knowledge to control the fate of man... He simply has to be aware of all the possible outcomes of the current set of quiffs and then choose which quantum line to follow after those quiffs pop. That is to say... he can see all possible outcomes from every action and choose which one he wants.

that sounds like omniscient and omnipresent to me.....

[Steven]

not trying to offend (apologies if i do) but this sort of sums up my issues (in a comedic way) with organized x-tian religion...

too bad it has nothing to do with christianity.

[torn asunder]

too bad it has nothing to do with christianity.

how's that, out of curiosity? do you mean x-tianity as *you* define it? because based on the x-tianity i was rasied with, it's a very accurate, tongue-in-cheek view of it... would you like for me to draw the parallels for you?

[Steven]

how's that, out of curiosity? do you mean x-tianity as *you* define it? because based on the x-tianity i was rasied with, it's a very accurate, tongue-in-cheek view of it... would you like for me to draw the parallels for you?

your serious?

after all of this time do you really think I dont know the parallels that your going to whip out Mike? That I've never been on the receiving end of them? That yours are so passionately convincing, or that your so enlightened your going to open my eyes or slam me with some new relevant bit of data thats just irrepressible truth?

and yes I mean Chrsitianity as I define it, which is exactly what you mean Michael, Christianity as you define it, and what you've gone on in the past to describe Ive read allready, and have even experienced it myself to a large degree, and even that - is nothing new or unique.

and I thought it was tasteless, but you dont really care.

[phee]

how's that, out of curiosity? do you mean x-tianity as *you* define it? because based on the x-tianity i was rasied with, it's a very accurate, tongue-in-cheek view of it... would you like for me to draw the parallels for you?

That seems like one way to look at it that is as accurate as any other.....

[bean]

another question...

do you beleive in YOU?

Yes, I do believe in myself. Bet you didn't see that coming.

I believe that when I put my mind to something, I can do it.

I lost 150 pounds on my own.

I quit drinking on my own.

I quit smoking on my own.

I decided to go to grad school and I am determined and know that I will do well.

I did not leave an abusive relationship because god decided to have mercy on me. I left because I woke up and realized I didn't deserve to have the shit beaten out of me every day.

I didn't live in my car because god was punishing me. I lived in my car because I was too ashamed to ask for help. I got out of that situation because I realized that I was going to die if I didn't ask for help.

Things happen in my life because I choose them, not because of some higher power.

In my opinion, god has nothing to do with what happens in my life. The choices I make are what influences what happens to me.

Now, having said all that, that is what I believe. That doesn't mean that I am right or wrong. It's simply what I believe.

I respect other people's beliefs.

If someone wants to believe that fairies blow pink sparkles out their ass and that's what creates good in the world...well good for them. Rock on.

I myself do not believe in god. I do not believe that things are in god's hands or that god has an influence over my life.

If I believed that, I never would have lost weight.

I would still be smoking.

I would still be drinking and this post would have been made while wasted.

My best friend is Catholic and believes in god.

My fiance is Jewish and believes in god.

They both know that I don't believe in god and they don't have a problem with it. I don't have a problem with what they believe. We respect each other's beliefs and don't shit all over them.

That you are trying to correlate a belief in god with a belief in self is bullshit.

You basically just shit all over any religion that is based on a belief in self and is absent in a belief in god.

Your statement is insulting.

[predaking]

Yes, I do believe in myself. Bet you didn't see that coming.

I believe that when I put my mind to something, I can do it.

I lost 150 pounds on my own.

I quit drinking on my own.

I quit smoking on my own.

I decided to go to grad school and I am determined and know that I will do well.

I did not leave an abusive relationship because god decided to have mercy on me. I left because I woke up and realized I didn't deserve to have the shit beaten out of me every day.

I didn't live in my car because god was punishing me. I lived in my car because I was too ashamed to ask for help. I got out of that situation because I realized that I was going to die if I didn't ask for help.

Things happen in my life because I choose them, not because of some higher power.

In my opinion, god has nothing to do with what happens in my life. The choices I make are what influences what happens to me.

Now, having said all that, that is what I believe. That doesn't mean that I am right or wrong. It's simply what I believe.

I respect other people's beliefs.

If someone wants to believe that fairies blow pink sparkles out their ass and that's what creates good in the world...well good for them. Rock on.

I myself do not believe in god. I do not believe that things are in god's hands or that god has an influence over my life.

If I believed that, I never would have lost weight.

I would still be smoking.

I would still be drinking and this post would have been made while wasted.

My best friend is Catholic and believes in god.

My fiance is Jewish and believes in god.

They both know that I don't believe in god and they don't have a problem with it. I don't have a problem with what they believe. We respect each other's beliefs and don't shit all over them.

That you are trying to correlate a belief in god with a belief in self is bullshit.

You basically just shit all over any religion that is based on a belief in self and is absent in a belief in god.

Your statement is insulting.

well said, I like your style!!

[Scales]

Nope. I also believe prayer is a waste of my time when I could be acting towards goals.

[bean]

well said, I like your style!!

thanky!

[Steven]

If someone wants to believe that fairies blow pink sparkles out their ass and that's what creates good in the world...well good for them. Rock on.

Your statement is insulting.

my statement that pissed you off was simply a question, for a reason.

it was not presented - or meant to be taken - offensively.

its a good question. I had a reason, you did not bother to ask me. I dont know why, we've enjoyed each others company before. I speak english, you speak english, all the potential was therefore right there.

Bean, I have been both an unbeleiver and a beleiver.

and atheist and a creationist

religeously head fucked and then spiritually liberated.

how much of that experience must I pre qualify with any of you?

Bean, is it ok with you that my life path has led where it has?

Torn? May I have permission to beleive as I do since you've in the past said that your God but I know you have never walked alongside me?

you all have your opinions - and in this place your like a little angry gang who cannot be moved and every one of you wants to be heard.

Im not trying to move you.

but in return - your not going to move me.

Now Bean, you exemplified your points with pink fairies and sparkly asses....eventually the God trip or beleif equates to things of that nature does it not? Somebody else in here likes to use giant turnips, somebdoy else likes to use spahghetti noodle monsters, over time Ive heard it all, and when it comes to God those sorts of statements always seem to come out and hey - no offense Steven right? Unless of course if I respond, and then who the fuck do I think I am besides some sort of asshole?

im supposing...supposing....that they (those types of examples) summerize the worthlessness of beleiving in a diety?

because to me they come off as intentionally sarcastic when you illustrate with that style. And I get it, because Im sarcastic and working on it, but most of these sorts of posts really do have an "you must be stupid" air to them and I imagine thats how their intended because they sound like yrou all throwing up in your mouths a little.

I never threw sparkly fairies and ass bound glitter at you Bean.

I simply asked - do you beleive in YOU?

Now yes - I DO equate beleiving in self with also beleiving in God and have gone into that in other threads on this board. and I have NEVER ONCE said that you MUST beleive in God to beleive in yourself. But because I beleive a pursuit of an intimate relationship with God reveals your inner nature in terms of both negative and positive traits, I get the hammer or I get acccused of saying stuff Ive never said. But that inner reflection I describe - I beleive that it allows you to take stock effectively and focus on what your gifts are, as well as allowing you to set personal goals to either overcome, address, or compensate for what you know your bad programming or weaknesses are. YES its my work that gets done, but in my case (and in the case fo countless others who beleive as I do) I beleive that God helped me do it - just like your efforts at educating yourself allowed you to lose weight, pursue career goals, etc. You know when somebody goes to a couselor or therapist and thigns come to light and that person uses that information to overcome, everybody cheers.

But if I say God showed me soemthing about myself, everybody jeers and somebody else says hey fuck you. And to those of you who get pissed - even though I have NEVER ONCE said that God told me soemthing about any of you or your personal lives, you tend to speak for me. You tend to tell me what Im saying or doing.

Just because WHAT I study as a resource tool, and WHAT I accept as valuable and measurable truth differs from your own, does not make it bullshit. It makes it different, yes, bullshit, no. You may want to consider that I too Bean - have had some tremndous life changes in my 41 years, I am no stranger to change, challenge, peril, or re-direction. I have not in ANY WAY attempted to disregard you or your experiences or your victories...why would I do that? What argument would I win with that approach? And so for you to come out swinging at me and telling me that I just shit all over others beleifs or religion without so much as asking me to explain in greater detail aboiut one simple question - just one question - did none of us any good. But it sure made me look like a dickhead because Bean said so, even though we both know that Im not.

and somebody (and many more probably) cheered you on while you did it.

should I be insulted? (fair question)

[the eternal]

Yes, I do believe in myself. Bet you didn't see that coming.

I believe that when I put my mind to something, I can do it.

I lost 150 pounds on my own.

I quit drinking on my own.

I quit smoking on my own.

I decided to go to grad school and I am determined and know that I will do well.

I did not leave an abusive relationship because god decided to have mercy on me. I left because I woke up and realized I didn't deserve to have the shit beaten out of me every day.

I didn't live in my car because god was punishing me. I lived in my car because I was too ashamed to ask for help. I got out of that situation because I realized that I was going to die if I didn't ask for help.

Things happen in my life because I choose them, not because of some higher power.

In my opinion, god has nothing to do with what happens in my life. The choices I make are what influences what happens to me.

Now, having said all that, that is what I believe. That doesn't mean that I am right or wrong. It's simply what I believe.

I respect other people's beliefs.

If someone wants to believe that fairies blow pink sparkles out their ass and that's what creates good in the world...well good for them. Rock on.

I myself do not believe in god. I do not believe that things are in god's hands or that god has an influence over my life.

If I believed that, I never would have lost weight.

I would still be smoking.

I would still be drinking and this post would have been made while wasted.

My best friend is Catholic and believes in god.

My fiancé is Jewish and believes in god.

They both know that I don't believe in god and they don't have a problem with it. I don't have a problem with what they believe. We respect each other's beliefs and don't shit all over them.

Reading statements like these is what makes me love you so much

You are so amazing!!!!!!!

In my quote reprint, I deleted the last three lines for Steven to re-read as a statement on its own, apart from what he responded to.

Re-reading this, you see this is nothing less than a triumph of the human spirit overcoming "demons" that lesser people have tried their entire life to do but failed...even with g-d's help.

She respects other's beliefs, but found that the profound belief in herself and the reclamation of self-respect has lead her to achieve what she never thought possible.

That's absolutely beautiful!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as those three lines that stirred you so,

I do not view your finding Jesus as a crutch or sign of weakness,

but also feel that those who do NOT take him into their heart as any weaker or stronger than you.

They simply are as they believe, as are you.

Maybe Bean took your question a little too harshly,

but maybe, just maybe,

you were being a little too condescending, as you often are,

and maybe,

even though you're a really nice and funny guy,

and I would honestly rather hang out with you some evening than most other people, even from this board,

maybe, just maybe,

when it comes to religion, you're still just a kindler gentler form of the evangelicals that most of us can't stand.

Maybe,

many of us have been told what to believe and what not to believe,

and how everything we feel and act and are is in one way or another, wrong

and maybe,

although you're much less combative than others,

you and some of your little comments (like "Do you believe in YOU," for example)

come off as smug and arrogant,

even if it's wrapped up in a nice guy package.

Just a thought.

[saechalyn]

I don't think it's worthless to believe in god. But in a world where many of us are repeatedly told that we are worthless for not believing in god, (not saying anyone here has done that directly) it can make a person defensive.

[sass_in_the_pants]

So, let me make sure I understand this.

TA belittles my faith, again, while Steven asks an open-ended question, again, and somehow Steven comes out as the asshole.

Again.

Huh.

Didn't see that coming.

And I hate to see this thread, like SO many good threads before it, go this way, which is this:

Someone asks a question about God, Jesus, theology, and most people thumb their noses at the idea and Steven says 'Yes, I believe.'

Steven then gets accused of a number of heinous crimes, up to and including Shoving Religion Down My Throat, Being Intolerant and Not Knowing What I've Been Through.

Steven then defends himself, and everyone else defends themselves, and the mudslinging starts and no one ends up learning anything.

I'm not defending Steven, he's got big boy underwear, he can handle himself. I just think it's ridiculous that my church discussion group, my CATHOLIC church discussion group shows more tolerance and acceptance than alot of people on this forum. And believe me, if I go back to those loafer-wearing soccer moms and tell them that they are MORE accepting than some vinyl clad pierced punks they will be very disappointed in themselves.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

You are of Christian Faith... you should know by now that you are guilty of every crime that has ever been commited in the name of any faith at all.

[Gaf The Horse With Tears]

BTW, I find that little joke of TA's to be extrmely offensive and void of any religious tolerance.

[sass_in_the_pants]

You are of Christian Faith... you should know by now that you are guilty of every crime that has ever been commited in the name of any faith at all.

hehe.

If I do forget, I'm sure someone will quickly remind me of all of my transgressions. THAT is something I will never lose faith in.

[torn asunder]

BTW, I find that little joke of TA's to be extrmely offensive and void of any religious tolerance.

(and this is also addressed to sass, and anyone else who is a x-tian...)

it was my expression of a *personal* belief - in no way am i condemning anyone for having this faith, i'm merely saying that it doesn't make much sense to me, and doing so in a way that uses humor. i'm not saying your going to "burn in hell" or some other punishment, for believing thusly, nor am i saying that "x-tians should be wiped off the face of the planet for being infidels! (heathens, etc...) nor am i saying that you shouldn't be allowed to follow said religion, because "it's wrong, and my way is the only way!"

i will express my views, while making every attempt at clarifying my intent (which i did in the sentence prefacing the image) but, as with all of you, i will not be "bullied" into holding my tongue on my thoughts. my beliefs are mine, and i'm entitled to them as much as the next guy.

i'll end with this...

"if one can't laugh at oneself, then one takes oneself to seriously!"

please try not to be offended - it's my take on the world...

[torn asunder]

BTW, I find that little joke of TA's to be extrmely offensive and void of any religious tolerance.

wait... how is it you're offended by it when you refuse to even identify yourself as x-tian?

...

I believe in God. not the Judeo/Christian/Muslim representation of him though.. it's why I refuse to label myself Christian though many of my beliefs/moral mesh with that group.

...

are you offended on behalf of other people who might have possibly been offended as well? or are you looking for a reason to jump on me for something?

[Steven]

Reading statements like these is what makes me love you so much

You are so amazing!!!!!!!

In my quote reprint, I deleted the last three lines for Steven to re-read as a statement on its own, apart from what he responded to.

Re-reading this, you see this is nothing less than a triumph of the human spirit overcoming "demons" that lesser people have tried their entire life to do but failed...even with g-d's help.

She respects other's beliefs, but found that the profound belief in herself and the reclamation of self-respect has lead her to achieve what she never thought possible.

That's absolutely beautiful!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

As far as those three lines that stirred you so,

I do not view your finding Jesus as a crutch or sign of weakness,

but also feel that those who do NOT take him into their heart as any weaker or stronger than you.

They simply are as they believe, as are you.

Maybe Bean took your question a little too harshly,

but maybe, just maybe,

you were being a little too condescending, as you often are,

and maybe,

even though you're a really nice and funny guy,

and I would honestly rather hang out with you some evening than most other people, even from this board,

maybe, just maybe,

when it comes to religion, you're still just a kindler gentler form of the evangelicals that most of us can't stand.

Maybe,

many of us have been told what to believe and what not to believe,

and how everything we feel and act and are is in one way or another, wrong

and maybe,

although you're much less combative than others,

you and some of your little comments (like "Do you believe in YOU," for example)

come off as smug and arrogant,

even if it's wrapped up in a nice guy package.

Just a thought.

yeah dude, maybe your right.

and maybe this was one hella long ass post.

maybe you calling me condescending is a little bit comical given your own unique style

maybe Bean could have given me the benefit of the doubt, or better yet asked me to explain

maybe I swim in an ocean of DGN condescending attitudes quite a bit myself

maybe she (Bean) should respond as opposed to you doing it for her even if I admire what your doing

maybe she chose to be condescended to and offended (is that proper language use?) but I am not her tormentor and never have been

maybe I never got to finish my friggen point before I got blasted

maybe I tire a wee bit of being the DGN Christian whipping boy for doing what you all very clearly do as well and yes that means you too

maybe sometimes I call you on it

maybe Im not kind and gentle at all and you read me wrong

maybe you have no idea how often I have clashed with my evangelical bretheren for NOT fitting that mold which you so despise

maybe I could likewise despise your own click but I dont and never have

maybe you just see "Christian Boy", and not me and maybe thats a little akin to being...oh, aloof

and maybe Im simply not the do as your told type - especially when it comes to matters of faith and Ive paid my prices for it yet you'd like to lump me where I dont really belong

[Steven]

i'm not saying your going to "burn in hell" or some other punishment, for believing thusly, nor am i saying that "x-tians should be wiped off the face of the planet for being infidels! (heathens, etc...) nor am i saying that you shouldn't be allowed to follow said religion, because "it's wrong, and my way is the only way!"

Hey Mike, Ive never said any of that shit either or anythign remotely like it, so who are you talking to?

[Steven]

i will express my views, while making every attempt at clarifying my intent (which i did in the sentence prefacing the image) but, as with all of you, i will not be "bullied" into holding my tongue on my thoughts. my beliefs are mine, and i'm entitled to them as much as the next guy.

you need to paste this sentence on your monitor Mike - because this is not always a universal practice here in the hallowed halls of DGN. it certainly has not always applied to me - you yourself have had a hand in that with your delete button, and I too have said "no offense" to people.

[Steven]

So, let me make sure I understand this.

TA belittles my faith, again, while Steven asks an open-ended question, again, and somehow Steven comes out as the asshole.

Again.

Huh.

Didn't see that coming.

And I hate to see this thread, like SO many good threads before it, go this way, which is this:

Someone asks a question about God, Jesus, theology, and most people thumb their noses at the idea and Steven says 'Yes, I believe.'

Steven then gets accused of a number of heinous crimes, up to and including Shoving Religion Down My Throat, Being Intolerant and Not Knowing What I've Been Through.

Steven then defends himself, and everyone else defends themselves, and the mudslinging starts and no one ends up learning anything.

I'm not defending Steven, he's got big boy underwear, he can handle himself. I just think it's ridiculous that my church discussion group, my CATHOLIC church discussion group shows more tolerance and acceptance than alot of people on this forum. And believe me, if I go back to those loafer-wearing soccer moms and tell them that they are MORE accepting than some vinyl clad pierced punks they will be very disappointed in themselves.

TA has a free pass, Sass this is what comes with enlightenment (and an eventual thread shutdown while blaming oh I dont know....me) and I would full on make out with you right now if I could.

[Steven]

I don't think it's worthless to believe in god. But in a world where many of us are repeatedly told that we are worthless for not believing in god, (not saying anyone here has done that directly) it can make a person defensive.

works exactly the other way around too babe - which is why I never lay that trip on people.

I may be a christian, but I dont hang in safe little pretty christian clicks, I'm out there in the trenches with everybody else, and I DO hear the same type of animosity that you do, and I understand it.

and you are not worthless to me. not by a long shot.