Congress Unites for Illegal-Immigrant Deal

[torn asunder]

Congress Unites for Illegal-Immigrant Deal

i was especially interested in opinions on these "provisions" listed in the article...

Officials described a complex series of provisions:

 

- Illegal immigrants who have been in the country for at least five years could receive legal status after meeting several conditions, including payment of a $2,000 fines and any back taxes, clearing a background check and learning English. After six more years, they could apply for citizenship without having to leave the United States.

- Illegal immigrants in the country for between two and five years could obtain a temporary work visa after reporting to a border point of entry. Aides referred to this as "touch base and return," since people covered would know in advance they would be readmitted to the United States.

- Officials said it could take as long as 13 to 14 years for some illegal immigrants to gain citizenship. It part, that stems from an annual limit of 450,000 on green cards, which confer legal permanent residency and are a precursor to citizenship status.

- Illegal immigrants in the United States for less than two years would be required to leave the country and apply for re-entry alongside anyone else seeking to emigrate.

Separately, the legislation provides a new program for 1.5 million temporary agriculture industry workers over five years.

while this all sounds reasonable, how the fuck does anyone expect to enforce any of this, when we're not enforcing the current laws/regulations/what-have-you!?

[Steven]

good point: enforcibility.

a general thought: in several states we've seen the uproar over the rights of illegal aliens.

yet we seem to gloss over the word "illegal".

i'm 2nd generation in this country, both sets of my grandparents came from Mexico. Yet being Latin does not in any way mean that I feel obligated to support the uproar, which at times has been communicated to me from my fellow Latinos, that this is my duty.

it aint.

there is a right way and a wrong way to do things.

if your here illegally, your wrong. period.

I cant just up and take my Latino ass over to Germany or Scotland and start mowing lawns and demand my healthcare and civil rights. Doesent work that way.

[CandyQuackenbush]

Wonderful. As if the US isn't packed enough.

[Blackmail]

good point: enforcibility.

a general thought:  in several states we've seen the uproar over the rights of illegal aliens.

yet we seem to gloss over the word "illegal".

i'm 2nd generation in this country, both sets of my grandparents came from Mexico.  Yet being Latin does not in any way mean that I feel obligated to support the uproar, which at times has been communicated to me from my fellow Latinos, that this is my duty.

it aint.

there is a right way and a wrong way to do things.

if your here illegally, your wrong.  period.

I cant just up and take my Latino ass over to Germany or Scotland and start mowing lawns and demand my healthcare and civil rights.  Doesent work that way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

EXCELLENT FREAKING POST. Here is my long winded reply:

Some people who want stricter enforcement and punishment of illegal aliens are racist.

But not all.

I love Mexicans, I even fell in love with one about ten years ago. I would have married her if she hadn't left me. I love Mexican food, it's probably my favorite. I love Mexican culture, I want to go to Toluca, Necaxa, San Juan, wherever, I just want to drive around Mexico for a month. I love Mexican soccer, I am a huge fan of Cruz Azul. I love the language, the mixture of Spanish and slang that is prevelant in Mexico.

I love to see so many Hispanics here. I lived in Miami and most of my friends were latin.

As long as they are here legally. We need people documented. Honestly, the next Johnny Jihad would have no problem getting into the U.S. thru the Arizona border.

One argument I often hear is that we need illegal mexicans for our economy because they do jobs that Americans won't do, for less than minimum wage and poor working conditions.

Doesn't that say something about some American people and the companies that employ the illegals? If you are poor and have a family to feed, why would you not go pick fruit in the sun or mow lawns? You mean to tell me that Mexicans will risk their safety and their health to travel here - often with no home - and pick fruit all day to feed his family but an American won't even do it in his own backyard? Are poor Mexicans simply better parents than poor American parents?

Some people have said the American economy would be badly damaged without illegals, but every study I've read said otherwise.

And why are companies hiring mexicans to do hard labor and only pay them $3 an hour in the sun all day? Do these companies feel that Mexicans are less than human?

The other problem is Mexico itself. Vincente Fox even distrubeted a pamphlet on how to illegally get into the United States. Everyone interested in this topic should read this:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=4273855

Why doesn't Mexico improve the conditions for it's own people rather than trying to get them to go to the U.S. for a better life? Mexican politics is full of corruption, the rich in Mexico keep the poor down and until recently there was barely a middle class in Mexico. Things could be better down there if they cleaned up the corruption. I am not a fan of Fox or the Mexican government at all.

So yeah, actually enforce the laws on the books and this won't be an issue.

[The_Dark]

and my shortwinded replay...

The Bill also has provisions for enforcing existing laws. Adding man power and money to Border Patrol. It also gives local law enforcment an offcial OK to help out where they can.

Since talks of this have come to the fore in public and government talks the number of people coming across the border has more than tripled. The presumption is that the US is going to do another amnesty like we did in the 80's.

Also, this bill isn't just for the Mexican border. It has provisions for the Canadian border too. Nor does it only deal with Mexican's coming across the border. A good portion of the people sneaking across the border are from other places in the world. I recently read an article where they interviewd a border patrol officer, of the 400 illegals he had help catch that day as they crossed, 86 were Non-Mexican. They came from as far away as Russia and Iran.

[odims_sphere]

Being in the construction industry I've worked with a lot of legal and illegal. I've noticed, with very few exceptions, they all give an honest days work with out complaint, that's respectable. What I have a problem with is the illegal part. As Steven pointed out there is no where else one can go and just demand the same treatment as citizens. My opinion is everyone has the right to be here, our country was built on immigration, however if someone wants to be here that bad they should respect our laws and regulations to come her legally.

[phee]

Being in the construction industry I've worked with a lot of legal and illegal. I've noticed, with very few exceptions, they all give an honest days work with out complaint, that's respectable. What I have a problem with is the illegal part. As Steven pointed out there is no where else one can go and just demand the same treatment as citizens. My opinion is everyone has the right to be here, our country was built on immigration, however if someone wants to be here that bad they should respect our laws and regulations to come her legally.

well stated

[The_Dark]

Looks like the deal is dead.. or at least tbled till the 2 week break is over. ^ Democrats changed thier vote at the last minute. Political analist believe it is because the Democrats want the Republicans to force a bill through. That way, if it turns out badly, it's not their fault. But, enough Dems are voting for it to look as if they really care.

[phee]

Sounds like politics... they were saying that there was a block from the republicans in the form of a filabusterto stop it from passing

[The_Dark]

No, that was the other Imigration bill. There was another put forward by... a republican and a Democrat.. cant remember who though... It was an amnesty bill straight up.

[phee]

ah

[The_Dark]

It was McCain and somebody else...

[Shade Everdark]

It wasn't Feingold, was it?

[The_Dark]

I looked it up... It was Edward Kennedy. You may know him better as Ted.

[Guest Megalicious]

My problem is not with Illegal-Immigrant workers, well not directly anyway. My Grandparents are from Mexico. They came here Illegally, and had my father. They worked hard, became citizens of this country, spoke english, and open a bussiness that was sucessful to some degree.

MY PROBLEM lies with other immigrant famlies that thrive off of this country's welfare and tax system. When your next door neighbor comes to this country illegaly, reproduces like a rabbit, is able to take his 8 kids to the doctor and dentist because they are covered by medical or someother goverment funded program, and you see Americans that are denied Medical or other assistance becase they make 2$ over the maxium to qualify It kind of makes you PISSED off.

Some get paid in cash having no deductions for taxes at all. Not to mention the ones that have fake SSN's that qualify to pay taxes and social security have so many deductions for dependents that they pay little if any taxes (hence the reproducing like rabbits bit.) Not only does that make them qualify for every goverment assistance program out there, but they pay less taxes and GET ALOT MORE BACK due to earned income tax credits and multiple dependents.

Add that on top of living in Southern California for most of my life, some places you go into look at you crazy if you dont speak spanish. WTF THIS IS AMERICA! This would be like me going to France, going into a store and getting pissed off because none of these people where speaking english. The thing that is more frustrating is that THEY DONT CARE, they dont care to learn english, because AMERICA HAS MADE IT THAT WAY. I mean I'm not a cutural bigot, but I'm not willing to scarfice my culture to make you feel more comfortable.

Im not ashamed of where my grandparents come from. Im not ashamed of my heritage, however I am AMERICAN (as sad as it may be sometimes). There are alot of people that come here illegaly but you dont see us teaching Japanesse, German, or French in any of our class rooms do you?

::I think the rant is over:::

[Steven]

My problem is not with Illegal-Immigrant workers, well not directly anyway. My Grandparents are from Mexico.  They came here Illegally, and had my father.  They worked hard, became citizens of this country, spoke english, and open a bussiness that was sucessful to some degree.

MY PROBLEM lies with other immigrant famlies that thrive off of this country's welfare and tax system.  When your next door neighbor comes to this country illegaly, reproduces like a rabbit, is able to take his 8 kids to the doctor and dentist because they are covered by medical or someother goverment funded program, and you see Americans that are denied Medical or other assistance becase they make 2$ over the maxium to qualify It kind of makes you PISSED off.

Some get paid in cash having no deductions for taxes at all. Not to mention the ones that have fake SSN's that qualify to pay taxes and social security have so many deductions for dependents that they pay little if any taxes (hence the reproducing like rabbits bit.) Not only does that make them qualify for every goverment assistance program out there, but they pay  less taxes and GET ALOT MORE BACK due to earned income tax credits and multiple dependents. 

Add that on top of living in Southern California for most of my life, some places you go into look at you crazy if you dont speak spanish.  WTF THIS IS AMERICA! This would be like me going to France, going into a store and getting pissed off because none of these people where speaking english.  The thing that is more frustrating is that THEY DONT CARE, they dont care to learn english, because AMERICA HAS MADE IT THAT WAY.  I mean I'm not a cutural bigot, but I'm not willing to scarfice my culture to make you feel more comfortable.

Im not ashamed of where my grandparents come from. Im not ashamed of my heritage, however I am AMERICAN (as sad as it may be sometimes).  There are alot of people that come here illegaly but you dont see us teaching Japanesse, German, or French in any of our class rooms do you? 

::I think the rant is over:::

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

great post babe, and man can I relate.

[Guest Megalicious]

great post babe, and man can I relate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Thats because you've lived in and around LA lol ...

[Steven]

Thats because you've lived in  and around LA lol ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

.....very true. ha ha (and I'm missin me some In and Out and Taco Nazo.....)

[Guest Megalicious]

OMG PLEASE DONT TALK ABOUT IN AND OUT or KING TACO I WANT A BURRITO FROM KING TACO SOOO BAD!! .. (and the baby doesnt make it any easier!)

However they do have a del taco (only ONE) in MI, however you know that is nothing in comparison lol ...

[Steven]

OMG PLEASE DONT TALK ABOUT IN AND OUT or KING TACO I WANT A BURRITO FROM KING TACO SOOO BAD!! .. (and the baby doesnt make it any easier!)

However they do have a del taco (only ONE) in MI, however you know that is nothing in comparison lol ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know, I go there from time to time.

it aint AT ALL like the rteal deal but still, reminds me of home.....

[Daevion]

I'm immigrating to Mexico and take all thier jobs.....see how they like it

[Fierce Critter]

NC is heavily populated with Mexican families.

I had no problem with them as a people - as neighbors, etc. Jon worked with many and, in general, they were hard working and genial.

The woman who used to sell her homemade tamales by in the church parking lot, however, has ruined me. Gads, what wonders in corn meal, pork & chicken she created. Snif.

But the ones who would come to my yard sales & equipment sales with nothing but hundred dollar bills in their wallets because they don't pay taxes made me have to struggle with prejudice & bitter resentment.

Jon laughed his ass off the day I held fast & firm and refused to let one amigo with a money clip full of C-notes talk me too far down on a self-starting mower I was asking a very fair price on. I even made the sumbitch gimme the forty-one cents change he had left in his pocket.

In this country? Better be paying your fair share & making your way legally. Otherwise, hasta la vista.

[Steven]

NC is heavily populated with Mexican families.

I had no problem with them as a people - as neighbors, etc. Jon worked with many and, in general, they were hard working and genial.

The woman who used to sell her homemade tamales by in the church parking lot, however, has ruined me. Gads, what wonders in corn meal, pork & chicken she created. Snif.

But the ones who would come to my yard sales & equipment sales with nothing but hundred dollar bills in their wallets because they don't pay taxes made me have to struggle with prejudice & bitter resentment.

Jon laughed his ass off the day I held fast & firm and refused to let one amigo with a money clip full of C-notes talk me too far down on a self-starting mower I was asking a very fair price on. I even made the sumbitch gimme the forty-one cents change he had left in his pocket.

In this country? Better be paying your fair share & making your way legally. Otherwise, hasta la vista.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

very good point Critter.

pisses me off when my Latino bretheren DEMAND certain rights, when I cant DEMAND they pay the same taxes that I do, and struggle with the health care system like I have, etc. etc. etc.

I'm a hard worker, ethical, dont live frivolously, am an american veteran, and I aint got me no c notes.

[Guest Megalicious]

Gads, what wonders in corn meal, pork & chicken she created. Snif.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In this country? Better be paying your fair share & making your way legally. Otherwise, hasta la vista.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Excactly.