Moderating Topics

[DarkChylde]

Oh man, I was really hoping that somone would atleast start getting really pissed off and yell&scream also start breaking shit. Lol (j/k)

I do have to say, this is actually the most peaceful debate I've dealt with though. Specailly knowing that we can all get along still.

[Fierce Critter]

While I do believe that people are responsible for getting control of their own habits, I do have to acknowledge that willpower comes in different degrees in different people.

I admire people with seemingly perfect grasp of willpower & control over their actions. I strive to be more like them, but it is difficult.

My own addiction is sloth. Most people think that fat people get that way by eating all day, or eating fattening things constantly. I can honestly say, and my doctor can attest to the tests that prove that's not true. If anything, I probably undereat on a daily basis, with instances of seeming bottomlessness at a once-a-month buffet visit.

But what keeps the weight on me is my inability to muster up the willpower & motivation to get my ass moving. When I do, the weight drops very quickly, such as when I worked for the DNR. Ended up doubling my food intake to keep up with the physical work I was doing, yet still dropped about 40 lbs in a 2 month timespan.

Depression is definitely part of my current situation. But I had this problem even before the onset, so I do chalk that up to a willpower issue.

It's for this reason that I cannot totally condemn the addicted. If they're honest & humble about their situation, I definitely can sympathize and wish them well. But if their attitude is one of entitlement & "fuck you and all of society", then my sympathy is nil.

[Guest Megalicious]

i think we're actually getting to something worth talking about - are we personally responsible for our actions, or can we blame our actions on externals, such as drugs or alcohol?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would agree with you TA, becasue not only is it a choice to take drugs/consume alcohol. We also have control under how much we pump into our bodies. Have I gotten shitface/high and done some stupid shit? Yes I have. Did I learn not to pump so much crap into my body. Eventually, which is in my view is better then never.

I think that sometime's its hard to except resonsiblity for you actions, using the excuse that .. oh Im sorry I was drunk, Im sorry I was high .. is denial andit is the easy way out. It allows the user the illusion that they can live in the moment without consquences, and strictly in my oppinion, there is no such thing. Yes you are avoiding the confrontation or the fight you have with your SO, best friend, family, shit sometimes even yourself, over your actions/behavior. but the consquence of that is becoming a junkie and or alcoholic or worse dead from your overendulgence. It's all a choice, no matter what situation or hole we may find ourself in life, THERE IS ALWAYS a choice. Sometimes there is no easy way, which is when we learn the most. But just saying you don't have a choice is digging yourself deeper into the hole.

[Msterbeau]

I'd just like to point out that addictions become addictions precisely because the addict has damn near zero abiility to influence what they do. It's generally as the addition progresses and the consequences of what they do becomes severe that they're scared/persuaded into beginning the process of changing their behavior. And even then it isn't easy. There's a huge mental shift that has to happen... A desire to become healthy, a willingness to take responsibility and the courage to do things you probably never thought you would have to do.

[honeymustard02]

* pulls out jiant fork* *poke poke* DONE!

[Steven]

  There's a huge mental shift that has to happen... A desire to become healthy, a willingness to take responsibility and the courage to do things you probably never thought you would have to do.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

this is a perfect description and completely true.

the battle is always for your mind. This is where the war is won or lost, the rest (the physical side of things) are secondary, even if they be at times, life threatening.

[ZhukovCodeslinger]

.... its really odd what behaviors people attribute to drug habits/addictions.

Being addicted to a drug makes you want that drug. Period. You may do all sorts of stuff to get that drug and that can be attributed to the addiction BUT, drugs do not force you to act like an asshole as a side effect.

Here is an example (made up farce of course)

Jimmy is addicted to pot (very slight mental addiction). All this does is make him want pot (and munchies), so he spends money on pot rather than other stuff and eats lots of junk food. Smoking too much pot does not make jimmy cheat on his girlfriend, lie about how big his penis is (or what STDs he has), steal from his grandmother, cheat on the exam he was too stoned to study for etc. These behaviors are all choices that Jimmy makes on his own.

Please try not to be too ignorant.

[honeymustard02]

Lol That would be funny to see in a list of side effects

Being addicted to a drug makes you want that drug.  Period.  You may do all sorts of stuff to get that drug and that can be attributed to the addiction BUT, drugs do not force you to act like an asshole as a side effect.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[Msterbeau]

.... its really odd what behaviors people attribute to drug habits/addictions. 

Being addicted to a drug makes you want that drug.  Period.  You may do all sorts of stuff to get that drug and that can be attributed to the addiction BUT, drugs do not force you to act like an asshole as a side effect.

Here is an example (made up farce of course)

Jimmy is addicted to pot (very slight mental addiction).  All this does is make him want pot (and munchies), so he spends money on pot rather than other stuff and eats lots of junk food.  Smoking too much pot does not make jimmy cheat on his girlfriend, lie about how big his penis is (or what STDs he has), steal from his grandmother, cheat on the exam he was too stoned to study for etc.  These behaviors are all choices that Jimmy makes on his own.

Please try not to be too ignorant.

What you seem to be forgetting Zhuk is that addicts start using in order to escape realities that they find painful or uncomfortable to deal with. Most addicts have experienced some sort of painful mental trauma... those underlying symptoms are quite likely going to influence a person's overall behavior and personality. I'm not saying this is true for every addict.. nor am I making excuses. Just pointing out a significant factor in behavior.

[ZhukovCodeslinger]

What you seem to be forgetting Zhuk is that addicts start using in order to escape realities that they find painful or uncomfortable to deal with.  Most addicts have experienced some sort of painful mental trauma...  those underlying symptoms are quite likely going to influence a person's overall behavior and personality.  I'm not saying this is true for every addict.. nor am I making excuses.  Just pointing out a significant factor in behavior.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

or they are bored and find being tripping balls high to be very entertaining.

[pharoh]

Is anyone ever going to poke this with a fork and call it done?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When it is burnt to a crisp then incinerated to ashes

[Msterbeau]

or they are bored and find being tripping balls high to be very entertaining.

Maybe in your case.

[torn asunder]

Maybe in your case. 

mine too... :erm :fear

[wheresmypiggy]

How many people battle depression or anxiety or are anti - social?

How many people take anti - depressants or other medications to deal with that?

How many people smoke pot to deal with that?

Does that make them all addicts?

[JaneDead]

How many people battle depression or anxiety or are anti - social?

How many people take anti - depressants or other medications to deal with that?

How many people smoke pot to deal with that?

Does that make them all addicts?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

it's interesting i had a conversation, brief conversation, with someone the other day about this. and then another one with someone else.

it was about drugs, what *is* a "drug", what people take things for, what makes an addict or someone using it moderation.

actually thinking back on it i had this conversation with someone else too a few weeks ago; it was about their spouse who has cronic pain and mental issues. they said the doctor called her a drug addict. and they were upset by that. and i said well in a way she IS a drug addict. her mind and body depend on drugs or else she can't function. or at least feels she can't function. i believe it is a combination of both. she is on medications, morphine patches and it still is not enough for her. to me, she is a drug addict whether she wants to be or not. and it has been going on for YEARS. not only does she depend on drugs i know for a fact she does LIKE drugs and does like to take them. maybe not some of the ones she has to to function but the ones she takes by choice to get messed up.

also i feel like this:

are you taking something to get fucked up? or to feel normal? people who take anti- this that and the other i don't think are doing so to feel fucked up. they feel fucked up already and they just want to be able to function. i don't think that makes someone an addict.

do you go out and get heroin or coke and sit there and do it til you are high out of your mind? do you do this often or feel you want/need to do it often? then i think you have a problem. even if you are not an "addict". there is still a problem.

do you want to try things because they are fun but don't feel you HAVE to? then i think you like to have fun with drugs. people might not think that is smart, but it is not a problem.

now regarding one of the other conversations i had:

which was more about pot use, which lead into other substance uses, and what is or is not considered a drug, and how much is too much-

i'd say that depends on the person. and how you function on drugs, off drugs and in your every day life.

does a person smoke pot every day? does it effect their life? do they feel that HAVE to smoke pot to be ok? do they buy pot instead of paying their bills that are over due? that to me would make them an addict even though in MY mind pot is one of the most harmless drugs out there. does a person smoke pot with friends on the weekend at a party? to relieve stress here and there? or just to chill out when they are sitting around the house alone? i'd say that person is just someone who likes to smoke some pot sometimes.

you can insert *drug of choice* where pot is and i would feel the same way.

i don't think this is a topic that anyone will ever see eye to eye on. even each addict themself will view addiction differently than another addict. and as for people who have never been an addict or been around addicts, they will just not be able to understand addiction or the need to fill an addiction no matter what anyone tells them.

also i don't think you HAVE to be an addict to understand addiction. growing up wtih an addict will give you insight to addiction, being exposed to it by a friend or a spouse will give you insight to it. you won't understand the struggle but you will know about it by dealing with it because of someone else.

[Msterbeau]

How many people battle depression or anxiety or are anti - social?

How many people take anti - depressants or other medications to deal with that?

How many people smoke pot to deal with that?

Does that make them all addicts?

Addiction is not what you take, how much you use it or why you use it... it's a powerlessness to control it's use. I think you know that... ?? :whistling

[wheresmypiggy]

Addiction is not what you take, how much you use it or why you use it...  it's a powerlessness to control it's use.  I think you know that... ??  :whistling

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So I'm not an addict because I control my drug use? I think that there are plenty of people out there that don't see it this way.

But there is the double edged sword.

I'm an addict because I do heroin.

I'm not an addict if I take anti - depressants.

[JaneDead]

So I'm not an addict because I control my drug use? I think that there are plenty of people out there that don't see it this way.

But there is the double edged sword.

I'm an addict because I do heroin.

I'm not an addict if I take anti - depressants.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

i don't think of it that way. i know someone who did heroin, but i never thought of them as an addict. (well i have known MANY people to use it, he was one that i never thought of as an addict. others i did think of as addicts. particularly the ones that over dosed time and again)

i guess people think of herion as a "bad" drug and think badly of it and anyone who uses it. but yet if you drink that is ok. or take/do something legal, that is ok too.

i happen to know a girl who takes anti depressants and i consider her an addict. but i don't consider anti depressants to be any better or worse than heroin.

for me, in my mind, it is all about the abuse of a drug.

i have a hard time thinking of any drug as really "bad". what i find bad is the misuse of it or over use of it.

[Msterbeau]

So I'm not an addict because I control my drug use? I think that there are plenty of people out there that don't see it this way.

But there is the double edged sword.

I'm an addict because I do heroin.

I'm not an addict if I take anti - depressants.

If you're craving and need for heroin is not truly controlled... then you're an addict. If you can stop anytime and never touch the stuff again... I don't see addiction. If you're intake of anti-depressants is uncontrolled... you're an addict. At least in my mind.

It's obvious that certain substances are far more addicting then others. Nicotine for instance ...so there may be less psychological issues involved with getting addicted, in those circumstances.

[torn asunder]

for me, if you can take or leave a drug, you're not an addict. if you find yourself doing things most people, or even you, wouldn't normally do, just to get the drug, then i think you're an addict.

(edited to add - also, if you feel you can't/don't want to get by without it, i think there's a problem...)

[Blackmail]

i don't think of it that way. i know someone who did heroin, but i never thought of them as an addict. (well i have known MANY people to use it, he was one that i never thought of as an addict. others i did think of as addicts. particularly the ones that over dosed time and again)

i guess people think of herion as a "bad" drug and think badly of it and anyone who uses it. but yet if you drink that is ok. or take/do something legal, that is ok too.

i happen to know a girl who takes anti depressants and i consider her an addict. but i don't consider anti depressants to be any better or worse than heroin.

for me, in my mind, it is all about the abuse of a drug.

i have a hard time thinking of any drug as really "bad". what i find bad is the misuse of it or over use of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I consider all drugs to be bad.

But whatever, EVERYONE should consider at least these 3 drugs to be BAD:

1) Cocaine. I lived in Miami and you should hear the horror stories of the South American immigrants who had their houses bulldozed by drug cartels. The way this drug gets here is highly immoral and I think anyone who used cocaine is immoral. Are you aware of how many people suffer and are killed to get this drug from South America to the U.S.? Plus, you know, it's really bad for your heart.

2) Heroine. It's nasty and you can apparently get addicted pretty easily. I have only known a very few people who have used heroine and those people were outcasts because of it.

3) Ecstacy. It can make your body overheat. Taking ecstacy is like playing russian roulette, but with 1 bullet and 99 chambers. Sure, it probably won't kill you, but there is the off chance that mixed with humidity or high temperatures that it can.

I have to admit that I don't understand addiction and I have never done any drugs. I would imagine someone has to have some pretty bad things happen in their lives to want to use hard drugs. Life seems pretty easy to me, you work, you hang with friends, you have hobbies and things should be cool. It's pretty obvious that you shouldn't be shooting up heroine or smoking crack. I can't put myself in the shoes of someone who was abused or whatever so I really just don't understand at all.

[The_Dark]

Most of moderen sociaty is addicted to some drug or another... caffeen, nicotine and alchohol being the big 3. Addiction is addiction. No matter the drug or how legal it is. Habit is another thing to consider. habits are sometimes harder to b reak than addiction.

I admit. I have an addiction to nicotine and caffeen. I have a THC habit that is nearly out of control.

The differance? Purely physical. THC doesn't form a physical addiction but it does form a rather strong habit.

Does this make me a bad person? No, the anti-social asshole in me does that just fine.

I'm pretty sure I had a point... somewhere...

[Steven]

So I'm not an addict because I control my drug use? I think that there are plenty of people out there that don't see it this way.

But there is the double edged sword.

I'm an addict because I do heroin.

I'm not an addict if I take anti - depressants.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

you know better than this Jesi.

there are many kinds of junk, and lots of ways to be a junkhead.

all the bullshit in between is semantics.

either you need to kick or you dont - its not hard to figure out.

[The_Dark]

I remember... (damn pot)

Addiction is physical and Habit is mental.

Certian drugs form a physical addiction.. other do not. Pot and Heroin are good examples.

Heroin creates a strong physical addiction. You don't even have to try it that many times to get addictied. Cases have been reported with as little as 3 uses causing physical addiction. Anyone can become addicted to it, ANYONE. It doesn't matter how strong you mental will power is... You cant change the chemical reactions in your brain with will power.

THC, the active ingrediant in Pot, does not form this physical addiction. It does, like many many things, with repeated use become a habit. How deep that habit runs depends on the will power of the user.

In both cases, Will power can win out. You have to have great will power to over come an addiction... but your still an addict. For the rest of your life. One time slipping up and shooting up is all it takes to put you back to square one fighting a raving addiction. A habit on the other hand is not so bad. One slip doesn't doom you so much, it just means your out of munchies.

[torn asunder]

I consider all drugs to be bad.

not to sound like an ass, i'm asking this out of curiosity, not out of sarcasm - but do you mean all illegal drugs, or all drugs? what about things like antidepressants? personally, i wonder where we draw the line on which drugs are/are not bad. (remember, cocaine used to be legal - they sold it in coca-cola!) i kind of think of it along the same lines as "guns don't kill people, people do" (figuratively speaking) i see nothing wrong with any drug, or the taking of that drug, if you're strong enough to remain in cotrol of it, as opposed to letting it control you, you know? that's a hard thing for many people to do...

I would imagine someone has to have some pretty bad things happen in their lives to want to use hard drugs.    Life seems pretty easy to me, you work, you hang with friends, you have hobbies and things should be cool.  It's pretty obvious that you shouldn't be shooting up heroine or smoking crack.  I can't put myself in the shoes of someone who was abused or whatever so I really just don't understand at all.

i know many people, myself included, whose interest in (certain) drugs stems from other areas, two of which are spiritual exploration, and just simple curiosity - both of which apply to me. i'm sure many people turn to them for negative reasons, but there are many others who don't fall into that category.