Education

[Blackmail]

Just curious, those of you who debate Religion in here, have you taken any theology classes? Have you studied any religions or do you just have a general idea about them? It seems alot of people here talk about Christianity but it's pretty obvious that several of you do not know what you're talking about. It seems Steven is the only regular contributer who is at all familiar with scripture.

It reminds me alot of a thread a while ago, See I went to college and was a Econ major and I had someone who had no clue what they were talking about try to argue inflation with me.

It seems very similar. So, do any of you actually do any research before you post?

[torn asunder]

well, now you're talking about scholarly discourse vs. laymen's terms/knowledge, which is where i'm coming from. are you saying that people who haven't studied religion extensively have no place discussing it? are you saying that our thoughts/ideas are invalid because we're not as "smart" as you!? are you saying we sdhouldn't be allowed to discuss/debate it because we don't measure up to your standards? that's awfully pretentious of you...

[Onyx]

Thanks for the sweeping generalization.

I've read the bible completely through three times and memorized large portions of it. I find it fascinating.

[JaneDead]

i went to catholic school from pre-school to middle of 11th grade. where i had religion class every day, mass weekly, and all of my sacraments. (well obviously not all, but five of them... actually four. my marriage was not in a catholic church) but you won't find me discussing too much about it on dgn even though i know a great deal about it all.

[Guest Megalicious]

well, now you're talking about scholarly discourse vs. laymen's terms/knowledge, which is where i'm coming from. are you saying that people who haven't studied religion extensively have no place discussing it? are you saying that our thoughts/ideas are invalid because we're not as "smart" as you!? are you saying we sdhouldn't be allowed to discuss/debate it because we don't measure up to your standards? that's awfully pretentious of you...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No I believe he was saying this ...

Just curious, those of you who debate Religion in here, have you taken any theology classes? Have you studied any religions or do you just have a general idea about them? It seems alot of people here talk about Christianity but it's pretty obvious that several of you do not know what you're talking about. It seems Steven is the only regular contributer who is at all familiar with scripture.

It can be annoying when people are talking facts while other people talk out of their asses. Not that I'm saying that is what you or anyone else is doing in the other thread .. I have no idea. I don't know the slightest thing about christianity.. so I keep my mouth shut because I have nothing to add to the thread.

And further more I believe it is pretntious of you to put words in other ppls mouth. You know very well what he was asking (no doubt out of frustration of the other thread) but none the less. Have you taken any theology classes? Have you studied any religion on an academic level? Its a fair question.

[The_Dark]

I was raised by a Budhist father and a Christian mother. I studied religion to sort out my own life. I was an Athiest for most of my young adult life... then I met God and decided that was the path for me.

[torn asunder]

No I believe he was saying this ...

It can be annoying when people are talking facts while other people talk out of their asses. Not that I'm saying that is what you or anyone else is doing in the other thread .. I have no idea. I don't know the slightest thing about christianity.. so I keep my mouth shut because I have nothing to add to the thread.

And further more I believe it is pretntious of you to put words in other ppls mouth. You know very well what he was asking (no doubt out of frustration of the other thread) but none the less. Have you taken any theology classes? Have you studied any religion on an academic level? Its a fair question.

i approached things in this manner because, *in my opinion* blackmail is being intentionally nit-picky and antagonistic, purely based on semantics, when he appears to be fully capable of participating in a debate in the *spirit* it was intended, not by trying to trip people upon the technicality of what *exactly* was said. furthermore, just because a person hasn't "acedemically" studied religion, that doesn't mean they haven't studied on their own, and i don't see where having taken courses should be a prerequisite for participation in a discussion/debate. if someone feels that another is incorrect, why not politely educate them, rather than trying to demean them by questioning their intelligence/education?

in the particular case i'm discussing, the old testament, *as i was brought up in a methodist church*, was taught as part of x-tianity, so i tried to point that out, based on my "study", and experience. he even proved my point in his own quote, and i'm of the opinion that, to divert attention from the fact that he did so, he created this thread to call into question my ablility to debate this. (ok, maybe not just me, specifically, because i'm sure i'm not that important to him, but anyway...)

of course, i haven't read yet, whether he has responded in the other thread in question, but i will go and check that momentarily...

[Jarodaka]

What good is an east coast, liberal education if it just fills your brain with a bunch of facts? No doubt those facts come from books!

I trust my gut. Why waste my time with education and classes? I prefer to feel my way through any issue, especially religion. I don't need to think with my head what I know with my heart.

[Guest Megalicious]

i approached things in this manner because, *in my opinion* blackmail is being intentionally nit-picky and antagonistic, purely based on semantics, when he appears to be fully capable of participating in a debate in the *spirit* it was intended, not by trying to trip people upon the technicality of what *exactly* was said. furthermore, just because a person hasn't "acedemically" studied religion, that doesn't mean they haven't studied on their own, and i don't see where having taken courses should be a prerequisite for participation in a discussion/debate. if someone feels that another is incorrect, why not politely educate them, rather than trying to demean them by questioning their intelligence/education?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It is *in my opinion* anyway, that you are doing the exact same thing, with your (how should we say it) *condescending* reply. which of course is strickly *my opinion*. It was a fair question. Everone else was able to answer it without becoming vexatious.

of course this is just *my opinion* but the little grumpy face you always use doesnt help.

In *my opinion* you are doing the same thing that you call out BM for doing. Which makes you what? I'm not going to say it because I think you already know. OF course this is just *my opinion*.

stop making it personal and get on with the topic. =)

[torn asunder]

stop making it personal and get on with the topic. =)

point taken, and thank you! =)

[Blackmail]

Meg and TA, I am sorry my words have started a debate from you.

Yeah I am being somewhat pretentious, but not to the level my post may appear.

I am not an expert on anything of the political nature, but I find it infuriating when people I know are less educated on a subject than I debate me. Is that pretentious? Perhaps, but I can't help it.

I see alot of people taking issue with Christianity here, and that is fine, but alot of what is said isn't factually correct, so their reasons for not liking Christianity is not based an facts but rather propaganda.

Onyx, sorry for the "sweeping generalization" but I don't see you quoting Scripture alot so I didn't mention you. Steven obviously knows a great deal so even when I disagree with him it is ok because he is obviously well educated on the subject.

[Steven]

well, now you're talking about scholarly discourse vs. laymen's terms/knowledge, which is where i'm coming from.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I find this to be a bit shifty TA. And convenient.

Because I htink that if you go on the attack - laymens terms or not - your making a grand blanket statement that deserves a well thought out rebuttal.

I dont talk smack about other religions.

Pretty much because:

A) its disrespectful and who the fuck am I (you)?

B) I dont know much about them. Not enough to be derogatory.

C) It does not excite me to be critical of others faith. I'd rather ask them some respectful questions and see if I can learn somethigng.

By the way I'm not a scholar.

Or a Theologian.

One does not need to be to be a responsible critic or counter critic.

I know why I beleive what i do.

TA - you dont.

[torn asunder]

I know why I beleive what i do. 

TA - you dont.

honestly, steven you can't possibly know whether i know why i believe what i do, but that's ok, because i go with what i feel, from my experience. i copuldn't prove anything to you if i tried, i can only share my thoughts, which is what i've been trying to do, and apparently i'm unable to live up to certain minimun standards for expressing opinions. again, my apologies...

[Guest Megalicious]

What good is an east coast, liberal education if it just fills your brain with a bunch of facts?  No doubt those facts come from books!

I trust my gut.  Why waste my time with education and classes?  I prefer to feel my way through any issue, especially religion.  I don't need to think with my head what I know with my heart.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Who the hell are you ... SC? :laughing

[Steven]

honestly, steven you can't possibly know whether i know why i believe what i do, but that's ok, because i go with what i feel, from my experience. i copuldn't prove anything to you if i tried, i can only share my thoughts, which is what i've been trying to do, and apparently i'm unable to live up to certain minimun standards for expressing opinions. again, my apologies...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

allright Dude I dont have a standard for you and I'm not pissed anymore and your aplogy is accepted and respected.

I can only surmize what you may be believing based on what you offerrd up and how you chose to do so. For a moment I felt disrespected. Belittled. Cheap Shotted.

I understand now that that was not your original intention. ANd I'm glad.

I can't "prove" anything either Torn, except that perhaps (perhaps) I'm not as sheeplike or mindless as Christians are often painted as.

were cool, you and me. Peace.

Steven

[torn asunder]

allright Dude I dont have a standard for you and I'm not pissed anymore and your aplogy is accepted and respected.

I can only surmize what you may be believing based on what you offerrd up and how you chose to do so.  For a moment I felt disrespected.  Belittled.  Cheap Shotted.

I understand now that that was not your original intention.  ANd I'm glad.

I can't "prove" anything either Torn, except that perhaps (perhaps) I'm not as sheeplike or mindless as Christians are often painted as. 

were cool, you and me.  Peace.

Steven

never was my intent to insult or disrespect anyone - i do try to accept people as individuals, and my generalizations, while fairly typical of the experiences i had, were unfair. i'm sure i didn't represent myself well in thsi, and i would much prefer to discuss things of ths nature in person, because there's typically much less misunderstanding and reading into things then.

i'm glad to know we're still cool, and thanks for the input! =)

[Fierce Critter]

My knowledge of other religions/beliefs/spiritualities comes almost exclusively from first-hand observation, involvement & discussion with people in those religions.

I tend not to speak from the angle of scholarly knowledge, but from only that which I have firsthand experience. I try not to get involved in a discussion I truly have no experience with. I do my best not to talk out my ass whenever possible, as I know it's only going to get myself in trouble when I'm asked to expand on something I really know nothing about.

The three words that have brought me the most peace in my life are probably "I don't know".

I LOVE discussion religion. I tend to do a lot more listening than talking. I like to be able to talk with people who will actually DISCUSS the topic, and not proselytize at me. I can be involved in a religion/spirituality discussion for hours and not get bored or want to move on.

It's good to learn. =)

[Msterbeau]

What she said. ^^^

I'm not particularly adept at book learning, but i do have 11 years in Catholic school and an entire childhood in the faith to inform me. When I comment about Christianity/Catholicism, you can generally be sure that it's from a viewpoint of personal experience. That said, I've been learning a lot by helping youths at my church learn about other faiths. World religions seems like a topic that ought to be studied in school. Including Aethism. I think people would be a lot more tolerant if the were wel informed on the subject. While I agree that religion has no place in government, I fail to see how learning about it could be anything but good as part of being a well rounded human being.

[Homicidalheathen]

I started out a baptist.....then went to budhism, then a wiccan church, then a hindu cult....ect...ect.....I have studied just about everything but on my own. I do feel I can comment on christianity since I used to be one, was saved and really thought it did something for me at the time, just moved onto other things and expanded my beliefs.

Currently I am reading: The first of my new in the Methaphysical/spiritual studies is: Magic Witchcraft encyclopedia by Susan Greenwood. More of a referrence for all things witch, in case someone asks a question.

The religeon Book by Jim Willis (pretty much more referrence)

The witch Book by Raymond Buckland (I know purists hate the guy, but this is just a referrence book and quite handy.....all things witch/wicca/pagan are in here)

Mythology of the American Nations by David M Jones and Brian L Molyneaux (more of a referrence than how to manual)

Healing with Crystals and Chakra Energies by Sue and Simon Lilly. (and this one I will be using in practical applications.)

Tao Te Ching By Stephen Hodge. I bought this one because I feel a need to get back to my Buddhist roots and basics of spirituality and charma.

I am still reading and using this one for my refference to Dieties and as a guide on which one to use for what but have had it for a couple months now. It is the best book! The Ultimate Encyclopedia of Mythology by Arthur Cotterell and Rachel Storm.

[phee]

My religious education

Well, I was a History major focusing mainly on Religion and Native American History... I had several western religions classes, as well as the normal history circut...

I took a few coursed in Native American spirituality, and I had some theology...

One of the reasons I haven't posted is because from all of these studies, I find that debating about items like this is very interesting to watch, but my opinions are my own, and I know they will not change anybodies perspective... when it comes to religion... I am comfortable where I am, and I hope the same for everyone

[torn asunder]

One of the reasons I haven't posted is because from all of these studies, I find that debating about items like this is very interesting to watch, but my opinions are my own, and I know they will not change anybodies perspective... when it comes to religion... I am comfortable where I am, and I hope the same for everyone

geeze, what a cop-out!! :erm

:laughing :whistling

[phee]

geeze, what a cop-out!!  :erm

:laughing      :whistling

Yup

[phee]

believe me I have LOTS of opinions, ideas, and truths that I have found (sometimes in the past I have posted them as some of the older members may know), but to my knowledge, very few people who are not close friends of mine, actually are that curious about what I believe... And I have grown so accustomed to others telling me not only what the believe, but what I should believe as well (I will admit that only one religions followers have ever actually done this, but I have heard that others can be just as bad)... And so I read, but I spare people my opinions usually, because, I am sure they don't need another person telling them what to think and what there own personal interpretation of "truth" is...

[Fierce Critter]

believe me I have LOTS of opinions, ideas, and truths that I have found (sometimes in the past I have posted them as some of the older members may know), but to my knowledge, very few people who are not close friends of mine, actually are that curious about what I believe... And I have grown so accustomed to others telling me not only what the believe, but what I should believe as well (I will admit that only one religions followers have ever actually done this, but I have heard that others can be just as bad)... And so I read, but I spare people my opinions usually, because, I am sure they don't need another person telling them what to think and what there own personal interpretation of "truth" is...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Someday, then, maybe you and I and Jon and Rayne can get together for some one-on-one discussion. Because I personally would love to hear what you believe.

I am also interested in hearing what you have learned in your studies of Native American spirituality. I never pursued my lifelong interest in it seriously, and welcome further knowledge on the subject from both a historical & theological point of view.

[phee]

Someday, then, maybe you and I and Jon and Rayne can get together for some one-on-one discussion. Because I personally would love to hear what you believe.

I am also interested in hearing what you have learned in your studies of Native American spirituality. I never pursued my lifelong interest in it seriously, and welcome further knowledge on the subject from both a historical & theological point of view.

I hear a dinner date sometime in the future...